09-01-2004, 06:50 AM
By the way I wanted to say before I went to bed...
Somebody said that he didn't think there were any important differences between the Peshitta verses the ones in the Greek bible. I disagree. While there aren't any or many that would pertain to really all important issues like Salvation I can name a few. And show their impact. Which is what I will do before I go to bed.
1) the camel through the eye of the needle vs. the rope
You know the Greek Bible has been interpretted that salvation for the rich is impossible etc. the peshitta actually illustrates the importance of the willingness to sacrifice ones wealth (as long with other potential idols) for the good of the Gospel. Basically we need to allow our hearts to be circumcised, and cut away our earthy ties. "Not look backward", as the scripture says.
2) "My God my God why have you forsaken me" I've heard sermons preached on that which realy do preach a Nestorian message. Basically suggesting that God's divinity was split from his humanity. They suggest that Jesus was in a moment of doubt. Not only that I've heard some suggest that at that time "the sins of the world were put upon Jesus and the sight were so horrifying it caused God to look away"
3) the 4fold ministry vs. the 5 fold ministry
as a Charismatic I heard sermons about God restoring the "Five fold ministry" spoken of in Ephesians chapter 4, you know prophets, apostles, teachers, evangelists, and pastors.
And at that time we believe that God "was restoring the gift of the apostles and prophets". Anyway when I went to Fuller theological seminary one of my texts covered that passage. And it came up with a "four fold" ministry. And it taught this because in the Greek teacher and pastor were essentially run together as a kind of a conjoined word. that says basically "teacher-shepherd". Anyway this reasoning was based upon a precise handling of the text.
And believe it or not it had a great epistolgical impact. So for instance, charimatics were fond of having traveling teachers who taught the bible and maybe did a few "miracles" or other charismata but didn't want to deal with any pastoral care type issues. Anyway if you see this as being joined it should negate this attitude. Because it would insinuate that both things are meant to function together.
And so I found myself after taking Greek and reading this book endorsing this new viewpoint. And I really spoke out against the way other charismatics taught and did things on this issue.
Then low and behold, I hear about the PEshitta. And I loom this verse up, and to my dismay. I find the Aramaic seems to agree with what the Charismatic mainstream says! It is indeed a five fold ministry. But rather than teaching this "by revelation", rather the context is that this is the what the origianl Aramaic says on the issue.
So at this point I had to really recognize that the western scholastic way of relating to the Bible. the way I thought would protect me from some of the goofy things going on in the Charismatic movement was flawed. We teach people to treat the Greek in an exact way. And we teach people what a wonderful exact language it is, but really its all a myth. I like to compare it to making a recording off a CD. Like those first CD recordings where they transfered a record album to a CD, before all the noise reduction technology got started. Back at that time, you heard everything on those CDs that came from the record, Including the record, his and the pops and hiss.
Anyway there some things that don't carry over to well when the Bible went over from Aramaic into Greek. but the way we teach seminary students. Protestant ones that is. We teach them to find meaning in everything. Including those hissing and pop sounds. And many people think those sounds infact came from the original apostles, and they are asking themselves "What does the apostle PAul mean he says pop, what does jesus mean when he says crackle". And they are infact coming up with pop and crackle doctines rather than thinking in their mind "I wonder if this could be noise, maybe we should be careful how we handle this".
Somebody said that he didn't think there were any important differences between the Peshitta verses the ones in the Greek bible. I disagree. While there aren't any or many that would pertain to really all important issues like Salvation I can name a few. And show their impact. Which is what I will do before I go to bed.
1) the camel through the eye of the needle vs. the rope
You know the Greek Bible has been interpretted that salvation for the rich is impossible etc. the peshitta actually illustrates the importance of the willingness to sacrifice ones wealth (as long with other potential idols) for the good of the Gospel. Basically we need to allow our hearts to be circumcised, and cut away our earthy ties. "Not look backward", as the scripture says.
2) "My God my God why have you forsaken me" I've heard sermons preached on that which realy do preach a Nestorian message. Basically suggesting that God's divinity was split from his humanity. They suggest that Jesus was in a moment of doubt. Not only that I've heard some suggest that at that time "the sins of the world were put upon Jesus and the sight were so horrifying it caused God to look away"
3) the 4fold ministry vs. the 5 fold ministry
as a Charismatic I heard sermons about God restoring the "Five fold ministry" spoken of in Ephesians chapter 4, you know prophets, apostles, teachers, evangelists, and pastors.
And at that time we believe that God "was restoring the gift of the apostles and prophets". Anyway when I went to Fuller theological seminary one of my texts covered that passage. And it came up with a "four fold" ministry. And it taught this because in the Greek teacher and pastor were essentially run together as a kind of a conjoined word. that says basically "teacher-shepherd". Anyway this reasoning was based upon a precise handling of the text.
And believe it or not it had a great epistolgical impact. So for instance, charimatics were fond of having traveling teachers who taught the bible and maybe did a few "miracles" or other charismata but didn't want to deal with any pastoral care type issues. Anyway if you see this as being joined it should negate this attitude. Because it would insinuate that both things are meant to function together.
And so I found myself after taking Greek and reading this book endorsing this new viewpoint. And I really spoke out against the way other charismatics taught and did things on this issue.
Then low and behold, I hear about the PEshitta. And I loom this verse up, and to my dismay. I find the Aramaic seems to agree with what the Charismatic mainstream says! It is indeed a five fold ministry. But rather than teaching this "by revelation", rather the context is that this is the what the origianl Aramaic says on the issue.
So at this point I had to really recognize that the western scholastic way of relating to the Bible. the way I thought would protect me from some of the goofy things going on in the Charismatic movement was flawed. We teach people to treat the Greek in an exact way. And we teach people what a wonderful exact language it is, but really its all a myth. I like to compare it to making a recording off a CD. Like those first CD recordings where they transfered a record album to a CD, before all the noise reduction technology got started. Back at that time, you heard everything on those CDs that came from the record, Including the record, his and the pops and hiss.
Anyway there some things that don't carry over to well when the Bible went over from Aramaic into Greek. but the way we teach seminary students. Protestant ones that is. We teach them to find meaning in everything. Including those hissing and pop sounds. And many people think those sounds infact came from the original apostles, and they are asking themselves "What does the apostle PAul mean he says pop, what does jesus mean when he says crackle". And they are infact coming up with pop and crackle doctines rather than thinking in their mind "I wonder if this could be noise, maybe we should be careful how we handle this".