08-16-2004, 07:24 PM
Dear Paul Younan & members of the forum,
Here is the clarification about the above post by bar_khela from my point of view.
I need to remind all of you that bar_khela is a muslim who is not happy with my post in another thread regarding the persecution of the Christians in the Middle East (i.e. <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=825">viewtopic.php?t=825</a><!-- l -->).
Muslim is as much of a proper noun as Christian and Middle East. Capitalize it. But I do not understand your motive. Did you need to remind the active participants of this forum that I was Muslim because it would remind them of the awful images that they are accustomed to on television? Did you need them to unify against me to support your bias?
Your writing method is Pathos.
He PMed me earlier, asking me for the evidence. I showed him the hadith of Muslim where Muhammad commanded Muslims to expel the Jews and Christians from the "Arab peninsula." Later, he told me that he does not believe in the hadith and asked me to "shut up", apologize in the forum, and challenged me for a debate. I told him that this is not the forum to debate about Islam and to bring his desire for Islamic debate elsewhere because it is against the forum rules.
Evidence. Evidence is the major artery of this forum. We prove Greek primacists wrong with our murderous breakthroughs, do we not? You openly claimed that Muslims persecuted Christians for 1400 years. That is why I privately messaged you and asked you to prove your claim before me, if you were indeed a man. You, oh-so convienantly, went through an entire bundle of Hadiths, which were alleged sayings and actions attributed to Muhammad two centuries later, then you expected that you had me by the forelock.
You should have known better.
You submitted the following Hadith:
KITAB AL-JIHAD WA'L-SIYAR
(THE BOOK OF JIHAD AND EXPEDITION)
Book 19, Number 4366:
It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.
Then I told you that was later attributed to the prophet Muhammad and what history contests to are two very interestingly different things.
I proved it!
I sent you four links of English translations of his treaties to Christians, swearing protection and freedom of worship as there is no compulsion in religion.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/letters.html">http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/letters.html</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.muslimtents.com/shaufi/b17/b178.htm">http://www.muslimtents.com/shaufi/b17/b178.htm</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/treaty22.html">http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/treaty22.html</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/treaty22.html">http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/treaty22.html</a><!-- m -->
I even quoted an Assyrian Christian who converted to Islam at the age of seventy.
He said:
When I was a Christian I used to say, as did an uncle of mine who was one of the learned and eloquent men, that eloquence is not one of the signs of prophethood because it is common to all the peoples; but when I discarded (blind) imitation and (old) customs and gave up adhering to (mere) habit and training and reflected upon the meanings of the Qur'??n I came to know that what the followers of the Qur'??n claimed for it was true. The fact is that I have not found any book, be it by an Arab or a Persian, an Indian or a Greek, right from the beginning of the world up to now, which contains at the same time praises of God, belief in the prophets and apostles, exhortations to good, everlasting deeds, command to do good and prohibition against doing evil, inspiration to the desire of paradise and to avoidance of hell-fire as this Qur'??n does. So when a person brings to us a book of such qualities, which inspires such reverence and sweetness in the hearts and which has achieved such an overlasting success and he is (at the same time) an illiterate person who did never learnt the art of writing or rhetoric, that book is without any doubt one of the signs of his Prophethood.
[21] cAbdul Aleem, I'jaz ul Qur'??n, Islamic Culture, Op. Cit., pp. 222-223.
But what was your rebuttal? You said that if I cannot accept the words of my prophet, then conversing with me is a waste of time. That was a ungraceful copeout that left me angry.
I asked you, subsequently, to give me another source outside of the Hadiths. You did not comply. You only started to say that this is not the place to spread my religion. Another copeout.
So yes, I told you to "shut up." You obviously can't have a serious debate about Islam. You can only vomit silly hearsay from the television tube.
From what I can see in his post, I believe he is trying to instigate Paul Younan and members of this forum against me, because in his Private Message to me (where I asked him not to PM me again after receiving 4 messages from him but to bring his desire for Islamic debates elsewhere), he threatened to get Paul to ban me like Chris(drmlanc).
and the best performance goes to....
I did not threaten to have you banned. I told you that if you were to type one more dirty little baseless comment that we'd have to settle this before Paul. Do not misquote me.
His post seems to try to put me in bad light as someone who is very demanding, unappreciative, and inconsiderate of Paul's health.
You are. I still remember the thread. Paul told us that he has a serious condition in which only 50 percent of survival during surgery can be known. What did you say? You told him that he has to survive for the continuation of the project! Impossible! Paul is a father and a husband. Paul is more important to me that these proofs.
This poster has grudges against me because a few months back when he debated drmlanc about Islam in this forum, I asked them not to debate about Islam in this forum but to debate it elsewhere as it is a waste of bandwidth and diskspace. Paul deleted the thread later and came out with a forum rules.
I don't hold grudges. Life's too short. But I will tear your argument apart each and every time you choose to lie about my faith.
If you look at my post, I didn't ask Paul to record the audio Peshitta "in this critical time"(sic) but just stating my hope that there will be an audio project of the Peshitta in the future and also asking members in this forum about the audio Assyrian recitation of Gospel of Mark where Dean Dana promptly replied.
Why even mention such a project during this time? Offer a prayer instead.
We can find free audio Greek New Testament online, and in fact I have the cassettes of Greek New Testament recited by Spiros Zodhiates which is very useful to me in learning correct Greek pronunciation and memorize some New Testament text in Greek by heart. There is nothing wrong with desiring to see the audio version of Peshitta available online. As a matter of fact, I appreciate the works of Paul a lot in helping me to understand Peshitta better. That is why I have been propagating Aramaic Gospels in the chat rooms, Christian forum, and also a strong desire to make a web site propagating Aramaic Peshitta in the future, and making Peshitta related sites ranked higher in major search engines for certain keywords.
What did Jesus say about people who note their good works publicly?
Here is the clarification about the above post by bar_khela from my point of view.
I need to remind all of you that bar_khela is a muslim who is not happy with my post in another thread regarding the persecution of the Christians in the Middle East (i.e. <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=825">viewtopic.php?t=825</a><!-- l -->).
Muslim is as much of a proper noun as Christian and Middle East. Capitalize it. But I do not understand your motive. Did you need to remind the active participants of this forum that I was Muslim because it would remind them of the awful images that they are accustomed to on television? Did you need them to unify against me to support your bias?
Your writing method is Pathos.
He PMed me earlier, asking me for the evidence. I showed him the hadith of Muslim where Muhammad commanded Muslims to expel the Jews and Christians from the "Arab peninsula." Later, he told me that he does not believe in the hadith and asked me to "shut up", apologize in the forum, and challenged me for a debate. I told him that this is not the forum to debate about Islam and to bring his desire for Islamic debate elsewhere because it is against the forum rules.
Evidence. Evidence is the major artery of this forum. We prove Greek primacists wrong with our murderous breakthroughs, do we not? You openly claimed that Muslims persecuted Christians for 1400 years. That is why I privately messaged you and asked you to prove your claim before me, if you were indeed a man. You, oh-so convienantly, went through an entire bundle of Hadiths, which were alleged sayings and actions attributed to Muhammad two centuries later, then you expected that you had me by the forelock.
You should have known better.
You submitted the following Hadith:
KITAB AL-JIHAD WA'L-SIYAR
(THE BOOK OF JIHAD AND EXPEDITION)
Book 19, Number 4366:
It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.
Then I told you that was later attributed to the prophet Muhammad and what history contests to are two very interestingly different things.
I proved it!
I sent you four links of English translations of his treaties to Christians, swearing protection and freedom of worship as there is no compulsion in religion.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/letters.html">http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/letters.html</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.muslimtents.com/shaufi/b17/b178.htm">http://www.muslimtents.com/shaufi/b17/b178.htm</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/treaty22.html">http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/treaty22.html</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/treaty22.html">http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/treaty22.html</a><!-- m -->
I even quoted an Assyrian Christian who converted to Islam at the age of seventy.
He said:
When I was a Christian I used to say, as did an uncle of mine who was one of the learned and eloquent men, that eloquence is not one of the signs of prophethood because it is common to all the peoples; but when I discarded (blind) imitation and (old) customs and gave up adhering to (mere) habit and training and reflected upon the meanings of the Qur'??n I came to know that what the followers of the Qur'??n claimed for it was true. The fact is that I have not found any book, be it by an Arab or a Persian, an Indian or a Greek, right from the beginning of the world up to now, which contains at the same time praises of God, belief in the prophets and apostles, exhortations to good, everlasting deeds, command to do good and prohibition against doing evil, inspiration to the desire of paradise and to avoidance of hell-fire as this Qur'??n does. So when a person brings to us a book of such qualities, which inspires such reverence and sweetness in the hearts and which has achieved such an overlasting success and he is (at the same time) an illiterate person who did never learnt the art of writing or rhetoric, that book is without any doubt one of the signs of his Prophethood.
[21] cAbdul Aleem, I'jaz ul Qur'??n, Islamic Culture, Op. Cit., pp. 222-223.
But what was your rebuttal? You said that if I cannot accept the words of my prophet, then conversing with me is a waste of time. That was a ungraceful copeout that left me angry.
I asked you, subsequently, to give me another source outside of the Hadiths. You did not comply. You only started to say that this is not the place to spread my religion. Another copeout.
So yes, I told you to "shut up." You obviously can't have a serious debate about Islam. You can only vomit silly hearsay from the television tube.
From what I can see in his post, I believe he is trying to instigate Paul Younan and members of this forum against me, because in his Private Message to me (where I asked him not to PM me again after receiving 4 messages from him but to bring his desire for Islamic debates elsewhere), he threatened to get Paul to ban me like Chris(drmlanc).
and the best performance goes to....
I did not threaten to have you banned. I told you that if you were to type one more dirty little baseless comment that we'd have to settle this before Paul. Do not misquote me.
His post seems to try to put me in bad light as someone who is very demanding, unappreciative, and inconsiderate of Paul's health.
You are. I still remember the thread. Paul told us that he has a serious condition in which only 50 percent of survival during surgery can be known. What did you say? You told him that he has to survive for the continuation of the project! Impossible! Paul is a father and a husband. Paul is more important to me that these proofs.
This poster has grudges against me because a few months back when he debated drmlanc about Islam in this forum, I asked them not to debate about Islam in this forum but to debate it elsewhere as it is a waste of bandwidth and diskspace. Paul deleted the thread later and came out with a forum rules.
I don't hold grudges. Life's too short. But I will tear your argument apart each and every time you choose to lie about my faith.
If you look at my post, I didn't ask Paul to record the audio Peshitta "in this critical time"(sic) but just stating my hope that there will be an audio project of the Peshitta in the future and also asking members in this forum about the audio Assyrian recitation of Gospel of Mark where Dean Dana promptly replied.
Why even mention such a project during this time? Offer a prayer instead.
We can find free audio Greek New Testament online, and in fact I have the cassettes of Greek New Testament recited by Spiros Zodhiates which is very useful to me in learning correct Greek pronunciation and memorize some New Testament text in Greek by heart. There is nothing wrong with desiring to see the audio version of Peshitta available online. As a matter of fact, I appreciate the works of Paul a lot in helping me to understand Peshitta better. That is why I have been propagating Aramaic Gospels in the chat rooms, Christian forum, and also a strong desire to make a web site propagating Aramaic Peshitta in the future, and making Peshitta related sites ranked higher in major search engines for certain keywords.
What did Jesus say about people who note their good works publicly?
???Do not give up, for that is ignorance and not according to the rules of this art... Like the lover, you cannot hope to achieve success without infinite perseverance.???