03-30-2014, 04:45 PM
GG-
1. Thank you for posting the "Kingdom of Heaven" verses from Matthew.
2. You state:
"No need for anyone to go back to the Ugarites or Sumerians for mystery knowledge."
That is not what I am doing, I have no interest in any "Mystery Knowledge". Indeed, the Post was somewhat simple in its assertion: "Is it possible that Nicodemus did not understand a particular idiom when it was presented to him in a conversation?". No "Mystery Knowledge" there. Is it permissible for Lamsa to write about "Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt" as a feature of language in use, to show an absurdity that hundreds of pictures and paintings of Lot's wife as a pillar of salt completely missed the point of the idiom?
We are given 2 interesting pieces of information in John 3: 1 - 4:
A. Nicodemus is a "Ruler of the Jews". Question: Did being a "Ruler of the Jews" demand that this "Ruler" knew Hebrew? Aramaic? Greek? How about LATIN? There is a difference in having a working familiarity of a language - "Excuse to me sir or ma'am, could you direct me to the station what has the bus...?" and "The idea of limits in The Calculus was finally put on a firm foundation by Weierstrass". This "Ruler" is presented with a set of statements that make NO SENSE to him. It has frequently been stated that Nicodemus fully understood what Jesus is telling him. Nicodemus does NOT understand, any more than the person who hears that "Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt" tries to figure out the miracle of changing flesh and blood matter into a solid sculpture of salt - "Did they let the rains wash the statue away? "Was it a "Graven Image"?" "Did they taste it to see if was really salt?"
Is it possible that Nicodemus was presented with a Semitic Idiom that - literally - made no sense to him? It appears to me that this is the case.
B. The second interesting piece of information is that Nicodemus came to Jesus "in the night". Perhaps we are invited to believe that Nicodemus came in the night because of shame on his part - He has been harassing Jesus and by coming in the night he is trying to let Jesus know that Nicodemus knows and understands what Jesus is truly attempting to say. There is another alternative, a different place and time but John has stripped away context even as he places 2 little gems for understanding.
3. GG: Believe me, I know and understand your concern. Study of the Romans is depressing. The Sumerians lived MANY thousands of years ago. You've stated these types of things before.
This Story, however, goes to what Lamsa argued. Are we to repudiate Lamsa because his arguments go against what has been taught for centuries by people who did not understand an idiom from a different culture? If so, then I call on PY to close down this site today. "No additional understanding is necessary." The Peshitta just happens to be a particular type of dead end. "The approved languages for understanding the Bible are Greek and English, no others need apply." Correct? Ummm...no.
It appears that Nicodemus is a classic case. It occurred to me that there is a possible thread that goes back to the first use of the word "Freedom". That could be a false assertion on my part. However, it appears to me that "Amargi" may have to do with "Jubilee" or "Elimination of Debt" or "Freedom from Slavery" by the time it gets to 2000 years ago.
"Return to the Mother" appears to have a close connection to:
"You must be born again. [See note]
[Note: From the start (over again)]"
That's the idea. That's all. I could be very wrong. You are most welcome to deny the premise or find another alternative. It seems, however, to be an idiom that Nicodemus does not understand. Jesus appears to be telling him that Nicodemus must free himself from his chains of oppression that bind him. "Chains of Oppression" that bind him by virtue of Nicodemus being a "Ruler of the Jews", a Pharisee.
The Pharisees? Oh, yeah! They were the people who, when given the bureaucracy of the government at the ascension of Queen Salome, "...differed in no way from Lords...", according to Josephus. I would certainly understand how these quislings would benefit from being "Born Again" - being set free...
CW
1. Thank you for posting the "Kingdom of Heaven" verses from Matthew.
2. You state:
"No need for anyone to go back to the Ugarites or Sumerians for mystery knowledge."
That is not what I am doing, I have no interest in any "Mystery Knowledge". Indeed, the Post was somewhat simple in its assertion: "Is it possible that Nicodemus did not understand a particular idiom when it was presented to him in a conversation?". No "Mystery Knowledge" there. Is it permissible for Lamsa to write about "Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt" as a feature of language in use, to show an absurdity that hundreds of pictures and paintings of Lot's wife as a pillar of salt completely missed the point of the idiom?
We are given 2 interesting pieces of information in John 3: 1 - 4:
A. Nicodemus is a "Ruler of the Jews". Question: Did being a "Ruler of the Jews" demand that this "Ruler" knew Hebrew? Aramaic? Greek? How about LATIN? There is a difference in having a working familiarity of a language - "Excuse to me sir or ma'am, could you direct me to the station what has the bus...?" and "The idea of limits in The Calculus was finally put on a firm foundation by Weierstrass". This "Ruler" is presented with a set of statements that make NO SENSE to him. It has frequently been stated that Nicodemus fully understood what Jesus is telling him. Nicodemus does NOT understand, any more than the person who hears that "Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt" tries to figure out the miracle of changing flesh and blood matter into a solid sculpture of salt - "Did they let the rains wash the statue away? "Was it a "Graven Image"?" "Did they taste it to see if was really salt?"
Is it possible that Nicodemus was presented with a Semitic Idiom that - literally - made no sense to him? It appears to me that this is the case.
B. The second interesting piece of information is that Nicodemus came to Jesus "in the night". Perhaps we are invited to believe that Nicodemus came in the night because of shame on his part - He has been harassing Jesus and by coming in the night he is trying to let Jesus know that Nicodemus knows and understands what Jesus is truly attempting to say. There is another alternative, a different place and time but John has stripped away context even as he places 2 little gems for understanding.
3. GG: Believe me, I know and understand your concern. Study of the Romans is depressing. The Sumerians lived MANY thousands of years ago. You've stated these types of things before.
This Story, however, goes to what Lamsa argued. Are we to repudiate Lamsa because his arguments go against what has been taught for centuries by people who did not understand an idiom from a different culture? If so, then I call on PY to close down this site today. "No additional understanding is necessary." The Peshitta just happens to be a particular type of dead end. "The approved languages for understanding the Bible are Greek and English, no others need apply." Correct? Ummm...no.
It appears that Nicodemus is a classic case. It occurred to me that there is a possible thread that goes back to the first use of the word "Freedom". That could be a false assertion on my part. However, it appears to me that "Amargi" may have to do with "Jubilee" or "Elimination of Debt" or "Freedom from Slavery" by the time it gets to 2000 years ago.
"Return to the Mother" appears to have a close connection to:
"You must be born again. [See note]
[Note: From the start (over again)]"
That's the idea. That's all. I could be very wrong. You are most welcome to deny the premise or find another alternative. It seems, however, to be an idiom that Nicodemus does not understand. Jesus appears to be telling him that Nicodemus must free himself from his chains of oppression that bind him. "Chains of Oppression" that bind him by virtue of Nicodemus being a "Ruler of the Jews", a Pharisee.
The Pharisees? Oh, yeah! They were the people who, when given the bureaucracy of the government at the ascension of Queen Salome, "...differed in no way from Lords...", according to Josephus. I would certainly understand how these quislings would benefit from being "Born Again" - being set free...
CW