03-29-2014, 03:26 PM
Hello everyone-
1. I've been examining Matthew 18: 1 - 9 for the last day or so and got into an interesting side trip. It's very tentative and would require more work and knowledge than I have available or possibly ever will. Any insight you might provide would be welcome.
2. I got started by looking at Matthew 18 : 3:
Mathew 18: 3 (Moffatt):
[3] and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never get into the Realm of heaven.
For me, the key word is "Turn". What do other translations say? Many use the word "Change" and a few use the words "be converted".
For what I see, "turn" is a very good fit. "...be converted..." is not a good fit. "Change" is OK if, when coupled with:
[4] Whoever humbles himself like this child, he is the greatest in the Realm of heaven.
If this Story is paired with "The Narrow Door", we are presented with a picture of Life and Death:
Luke 13: 23 - 24 (RSV):
[23] And some one said to him, "Lord, will those who are saved be few?" And he said to them,
[24] "Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
The "Narrow Door" is so small that you must "turn" or "change", "humble yourself like this child..." in order to get into the "Realm of Heaven".
I hope that you can see that if these 2 texts are conflated, the idea that "you must turn as a child" yields excellent sense. 'N as always, you don't have to agree to conflate any Stories here. Your mileage may vary.
Problem: As far as I can tell, only the Greek translations use "turn". The Aramaics use "change" with Vic Alexander using "Return", about which more in a minute.
Now, this is not a question of Aramaic Primacy vs Greek Primacy. If the Stories were made up out of whole cloth then perhaps the first written Stories were in Greek but I do not believe that.
Which brings us to the real reason behind this Post.
In a discussion with someone who actually knows what he is talking about, I was reacquainted with the interpretation that has accrued to these Stories for 2000 years. This is about being "Born Again". As in, "Nicodemus":
John 3: 3 (Younan):
[3] Yeshua answered and said to him, "Truly, truly I say to you, if a man is not born again (1), he is not able to see the Kingdom of God.
(Hope I put everything in order. The "(1)" is a note - "Literally, "From the start (over again)." )
The first moment after I signed off from this E-Mail exchange, I had a thought about Samuel Kramer's book, The Sumerians, p. 79. In discussing the Sumerian Reformer Urukagina, Kramer makes note of the first use of the word "Freedom":
"...it is in this document that we find the word "freedom" used for the first time in man's recorded history; the word is amargi, which, as has been recently pointed out by Adam Falkenstein, means literally, "return to the mother"...".
The Sumerians lived 1000 years before the Israelites, so a little analysis is necessary here. Greglaser has pointed out some of this. "Immr-Ya" comes to us as "Lamb of Ya" and this is very Semitic. Pettinato in his study of the City-State Ebla gives a number of examples of this, ending with the supposition that "Nimrod" might come from "Nmmr-Ha'ad" => "Panther of Ha'ad". The sub-text of this is that there can be words that pass through many hundreds of years and still retain meaning to the cultures that are there at that later time.
Now, in order to trace this idea to Jesus and Nicodemus, I would have to show that "Return-to-the-Mother" => "Freedom" traveled 1000 years somewhat intact and made it through in the Aramaic with some of its original meaning.
Nonetheless, there is the possibility that Nicodemus does not understand the idiom, in the same manner as Lamsa used to point out with "Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt". That is, she was awestruck, not that she was literally turned into a pillar of salt.
John 3: 1 - 4 (RSV):
[1] Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicode'mus, a ruler of the Jews.
[2] This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do, unless God is with him."
[3] Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
[4] Nicode'mus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
Nicodemus doesn't get it. This is a Semitic device, a Semitic Idiom. Perhaps the better translation would be something like, "Unless you are free you cannot see the Kingdom of God" or, more probably, "Unless you are freed (from your bondage and afflictions) you will not see the Kingdom of God".
Nicodemus is supposedly a Pharisee but more importantly, a "...ruler of the Jews". It is possible that Jesus is preaching to him and Nicodemus does not even understand what is being said.
CW
1. I've been examining Matthew 18: 1 - 9 for the last day or so and got into an interesting side trip. It's very tentative and would require more work and knowledge than I have available or possibly ever will. Any insight you might provide would be welcome.
2. I got started by looking at Matthew 18 : 3:
Mathew 18: 3 (Moffatt):
[3] and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never get into the Realm of heaven.
For me, the key word is "Turn". What do other translations say? Many use the word "Change" and a few use the words "be converted".
For what I see, "turn" is a very good fit. "...be converted..." is not a good fit. "Change" is OK if, when coupled with:
[4] Whoever humbles himself like this child, he is the greatest in the Realm of heaven.
If this Story is paired with "The Narrow Door", we are presented with a picture of Life and Death:
Luke 13: 23 - 24 (RSV):
[23] And some one said to him, "Lord, will those who are saved be few?" And he said to them,
[24] "Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
The "Narrow Door" is so small that you must "turn" or "change", "humble yourself like this child..." in order to get into the "Realm of Heaven".
I hope that you can see that if these 2 texts are conflated, the idea that "you must turn as a child" yields excellent sense. 'N as always, you don't have to agree to conflate any Stories here. Your mileage may vary.
Problem: As far as I can tell, only the Greek translations use "turn". The Aramaics use "change" with Vic Alexander using "Return", about which more in a minute.
Now, this is not a question of Aramaic Primacy vs Greek Primacy. If the Stories were made up out of whole cloth then perhaps the first written Stories were in Greek but I do not believe that.
Which brings us to the real reason behind this Post.
In a discussion with someone who actually knows what he is talking about, I was reacquainted with the interpretation that has accrued to these Stories for 2000 years. This is about being "Born Again". As in, "Nicodemus":
John 3: 3 (Younan):
[3] Yeshua answered and said to him, "Truly, truly I say to you, if a man is not born again (1), he is not able to see the Kingdom of God.
(Hope I put everything in order. The "(1)" is a note - "Literally, "From the start (over again)." )
The first moment after I signed off from this E-Mail exchange, I had a thought about Samuel Kramer's book, The Sumerians, p. 79. In discussing the Sumerian Reformer Urukagina, Kramer makes note of the first use of the word "Freedom":
"...it is in this document that we find the word "freedom" used for the first time in man's recorded history; the word is amargi, which, as has been recently pointed out by Adam Falkenstein, means literally, "return to the mother"...".
The Sumerians lived 1000 years before the Israelites, so a little analysis is necessary here. Greglaser has pointed out some of this. "Immr-Ya" comes to us as "Lamb of Ya" and this is very Semitic. Pettinato in his study of the City-State Ebla gives a number of examples of this, ending with the supposition that "Nimrod" might come from "Nmmr-Ha'ad" => "Panther of Ha'ad". The sub-text of this is that there can be words that pass through many hundreds of years and still retain meaning to the cultures that are there at that later time.
Now, in order to trace this idea to Jesus and Nicodemus, I would have to show that "Return-to-the-Mother" => "Freedom" traveled 1000 years somewhat intact and made it through in the Aramaic with some of its original meaning.
Nonetheless, there is the possibility that Nicodemus does not understand the idiom, in the same manner as Lamsa used to point out with "Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt". That is, she was awestruck, not that she was literally turned into a pillar of salt.
John 3: 1 - 4 (RSV):
[1] Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicode'mus, a ruler of the Jews.
[2] This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do, unless God is with him."
[3] Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
[4] Nicode'mus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
Nicodemus doesn't get it. This is a Semitic device, a Semitic Idiom. Perhaps the better translation would be something like, "Unless you are free you cannot see the Kingdom of God" or, more probably, "Unless you are freed (from your bondage and afflictions) you will not see the Kingdom of God".
Nicodemus is supposedly a Pharisee but more importantly, a "...ruler of the Jews". It is possible that Jesus is preaching to him and Nicodemus does not even understand what is being said.
CW