09-22-2011, 02:57 PM
Here is Hebrews 2:9 as witnessed by Origen in about 240 A.D. from a text that he knew of that must have reached back to at least the 2nd Century...and which I believe traces all the way back to the Original Autograph ...
"He is a great High-Priest, having offered Himself as the sacrifice which is offered once for all, and not for men only but for every rational creature. "For without God He tasted death for every one." In some copies of the Epistle to the Hebrews the words are ?by the grace of God.? Now, whether He tasted death for every one without God, He died not for men only but for all other intellectual beings too, or whether He tasted death for every one by the grace of God, He died for all without God, for by the grace of God He tasted death for every one." Origen - Commentary on the Gospel of John: Book I - About 240 A.D.
Notice that Origen gives the most prevelant reading 1st, then the other one, which he said was in "some copies"... The most prevelant reading, is now the one least prevelant, being overtaken by the variant in some copies...and no doubt because of the tendancy of the Greeks and Latins, to go in the direction they did, in regards to their Christological doctrines...which spilt the Church in half in 431 A.D. at the instigation of Cryil of Alexandria.
Dave, notice that neither of these readings that Origen knew of, is the one you went with. If anyone knew about texts back then...it was Origen.
Dave. Immortal GOD, can't die. His Son, The Messiah did though, in His Humanity...to do the will of The Father who sent Him into the world to redeem mankind and reconcile them back to GOD. GOD loved the world so much that He gave and sent His only begotton Son into the world...to save the world through Him.
Blessings,
Chuck
"He is a great High-Priest, having offered Himself as the sacrifice which is offered once for all, and not for men only but for every rational creature. "For without God He tasted death for every one." In some copies of the Epistle to the Hebrews the words are ?by the grace of God.? Now, whether He tasted death for every one without God, He died not for men only but for all other intellectual beings too, or whether He tasted death for every one by the grace of God, He died for all without God, for by the grace of God He tasted death for every one." Origen - Commentary on the Gospel of John: Book I - About 240 A.D.
Notice that Origen gives the most prevelant reading 1st, then the other one, which he said was in "some copies"... The most prevelant reading, is now the one least prevelant, being overtaken by the variant in some copies...and no doubt because of the tendancy of the Greeks and Latins, to go in the direction they did, in regards to their Christological doctrines...which spilt the Church in half in 431 A.D. at the instigation of Cryil of Alexandria.
Dave, notice that neither of these readings that Origen knew of, is the one you went with. If anyone knew about texts back then...it was Origen.
Dave. Immortal GOD, can't die. His Son, The Messiah did though, in His Humanity...to do the will of The Father who sent Him into the world to redeem mankind and reconcile them back to GOD. GOD loved the world so much that He gave and sent His only begotton Son into the world...to save the world through Him.
Blessings,
Chuck