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Someone hates Maryah!!! :X >: :X >:
#1
Some guy I know said:

<<I asked an Aramaic expert on Marya, and if it was spelled with a Heh (Hey), he responded:


Quote:
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The Zealot: NO!
The Zealot: NO
The Zealot: It is an ALEF
The Zealot: Mem-Resh-Alef
The Zealot: NO LOLOL
The Zealot: that's ridiculous!
The Zealot: That guy was all confused LOLOLOL
The Zealot: Mara/marya in Aramaic simply means Mister, master
The Zealot: don't pay attention to such nonsense Ani
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There you go Chris. You can come with those who claim that Marya means "YHVH" and we can have a nice little discussion. >>

This guy is an Aramaic expert? Any help?
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#2
Is YA (MRYA) the same as YaH (YHWH) ?
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#3
drmlanc Wrote:Is YA (MRYA) the same as YaH (YHWH) ?

Of course it is! <!-- sConfusedhock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/shocked.gif" alt="Confusedhock:" title="shocked" /><!-- sConfusedhock: -->

Think of the following names:
  • Eli-Ya (Elijah - "Ya is my God"), spelled in Aramaic [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0yl0[/font]

    Khazqi-Ya (Hezekiah, "Stengthened of Ya"), spelled in Aramaic [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0yqzx[/font]

    Aeram-Ya (Jeremiah, "Ya will uplift"), spelled in Aramaic [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0ymr0[/font]

"Ya" is a contraction for 'YHWH' in Aramaic. Think of all the names that end in "-iah". <!-- sConfusedhock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/shocked.gif" alt="Confusedhock:" title="shocked" /><!-- sConfusedhock: -->

[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0yrm[/font]
"Mar-Ya" is a compound title made up of the title "Mar" (Lord) and the contraction "Ya" and it means "The Lord YA" - which is the Aramaic cognate for "The Lord YHWH".

This is why the Peshitta TaNaKH, 100% of the time, translates YHWH as MRYA. <!-- sConfusedhock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/shocked.gif" alt="Confusedhock:" title="shocked" /><!-- sConfusedhock: -->
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
[Image: sig.jpg]
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#4
hehe! I already responded to him, and I mentioned to him the names of Isiaah and Jeremiah - spelt in Aramaic - and if they also then lack the "Yah" and then do not have the Godly status the names should have, like Maryah.

I also gave him the "Jesus is Alaha" verse <!-- sWink --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/wink1.gif" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /><!-- sWink -->

btw, Alaha - is that any relation to 'Alah' - name only. Of course, Alah, is simply the moon god from Islam's early 300 + gods...

You can put the Alaha one in teh FAQ section too - many believe that nonsense!
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#5
drmlanc Wrote:btw, Alaha - is that any relation to 'Alah' - name only. Of course, Alah, is simply the moon god from Islam's early 300 + gods...

All three surviving Semitic languages - Aramaic, Hebrew and Arabic derive from a common ancestor. In ancient Akkadian (no longer spoken), the word for "god" was "Iluh" and from this old Semitic term the words "Alaha" (Aramaic), "Eloh" (Hebrew), and "Allah" (Arabic) derive.

These words are the exact cognate of the English "god" (with a lower-case "g").

All pagan dieties in Mesopotamia, worshipped by the early Akkadian-speaking Semites, were called by this title. Remember, it's not a name - it's a title, like the English "god" or "angel" or "demon" or "saint" or "president", etc.

Yes, the early Arabs worshipped the moon and many other planets and deities - and they all were called "allah" in the Arabic language because "allah" simply means "god".

The ancient Assyrians and Babylonians worshipped hundreds of deities and they called them all by the title of "illuh".

So when we call the "God" of Abraham "Alaha", we are not calling him by his name. We are simply stating what He is - "God." It's only a simple title.

His proper personal Name is hwhy - and in Aramaic we call him [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0yrm[/font] which contains a contraction of the Hebrew name.

In Arabic, unfortunately, there is no relation to this name. They simply call him by the generic term "Allah", which is only a title. Many of them do not realize that the word is only a title and not a proper, personal name.
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
[Image: sig.jpg]
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#6
Paul said:
Quote: So when we call the "God" of Abraham "Alaha", we are not calling him by his name. We are simply stating what He is - "God." It's only a simple title.

His proper personal Name is hwhy - and in Aramaic we call him 0yrm which contains a contraction of the Hebrew name.

In Arabic, unfortunately, there is no relation to this name. They simply call him by the generic term "Allah", which is only a title. Many of them do not realize that the word is only a title and not a proper, personal name.

Some Muslim websites say "Allah" is their god's unique personal name:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.muslim.org/islam/allah.htm">http://www.muslim.org/islam/allah.htm</a><!-- m -->

But, regardless, whether "Allah" is a name or just a title or even a title that became a name, the god of Islam ISN'T named YHWH, so he isn't my Elohim as far as I'm concerned. Speaking of Islam, I heard the director of this website, a convert from Islam and former Fatah (PLO) terrorist, speak at my congregation last Erev Shabbat:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.hopeforishmael.org/">http://www.hopeforishmael.org/</a><!-- m -->

Shlama, Craig
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#7
Craig Amanyahu Wrote:But, regardless, whether "Allah" is a name or just a title or even a title that became a name, the god of Islam ISN'T named YHWH, so he isn't my Elohim as far as I'm concerned.

Shlama, Craig

I couldn't agree with you more. :wink:
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
[Image: sig.jpg]
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#8
Thunks guys, I didn't know Alaha is just Aramaic for "God".
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#9
Quote:
Paul Younan Wrote:
drmlanc Wrote:btw, Alaha - is that any relation to 'Alah' - name only. Of course, Alah, is simply the moon god from Islam's early 300 + gods...

All three surviving Semitic languages - Aramaic, Hebrew and Arabic derive from a common ancestor. In ancient Akkadian (no longer spoken), the word for "god" was "Iluh" and from this old Semitic term the words "Alaha" (Aramaic), "Eloh" (Hebrew), and "Allah" (Arabic) derive.

These words are the exact cognate of the English "god" (with a lower-case "g").

All pagan dieties in Mesopotamia, worshipped by the early Akkadian-speaking Semites, were called by this title. Remember, it's not a name - it's a title, like the English "god" or "angel" or "demon" or "saint" or "president", etc.

Yes, the early Arabs worshipped the moon and many other planets and deities - and they all were called "allah" in the Arabic language because "allah" simply means "god".

As far as I know the Arabic word 'allah' [alef-lam-lam-haa] does not correspond to 'god' as the word contains 'al' which makes it definite. 'Allah' cannot be taken in the possessive or indefinite. Hence one cannot say 'O my Allah' or 'your Allah' because of the 'al' which makes the definite article.

The appropriate word would be 'ilah' [alef-lam-haa] which is not definite and hence can be taken as 'a god' or 'my/your god'.

With the Hebrew though the 'alh' [alef-lamed-heh] can be taken in the possessive, adding the 'ha' as a prefix makes it definite. Is this true also of Aramaic?
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#10
Gentile Wrote:As far as I know the Arabic word 'allah' [alef-lam-lam-haa] does not correspond to 'god' as the word contains 'al' which makes it definite. 'Allah' cannot be taken in the possessive or indefinite. Hence one cannot say 'O my Allah' or 'your Allah' because of the 'al' which makes the definite article.

The appropriate word would be 'ilah' [alef-lam-haa] which is not definite and hence can be taken as 'a god' or 'my/your god'.

With the Hebrew though the 'alh' [alef-lamed-heh] can be taken in the possessive, adding the 'ha' as a prefix makes it definite. Is this true also of Aramaic?

Aramaic does not have a form for the definite. It must be drawn from the context. This is unlike both Hebrew (with the 'ha-') and Arabic (with the 'al-'). In fact, we find many variances in the Greek versions of the NT because of this very unique feature of Aramaic. <!-- sBig Grin --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="Big Grin" title="Happy" /><!-- sBig Grin -->

In Aramaic, "Alaha" means either "a god" or "the God".

In the case of the Arabic "Allah" - you are correct, it does contain the definite "al" - which would, of course, be the equivalent of the Aramaic "Alaha" (in the definite, of course.)
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
[Image: sig.jpg]
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#11
Thats interesting, seeing as Hebrew makes quite a bit of use and Arabic makes enormous use of the definite article, I suppose one would have assumed that Aramaic being the 'father' of these languages would too. Yes you are right the Arabic comes from the Aramaic, I reckon it is possibly an Arabization of the word which became more 'absolute' once monotheism became established amongst the Arabians.

Some believe the hebrew word is 'eloah' while some say it is 'eloha' and thus conclude that the 'ha' at the end constitutes the 'the' - I can't see this myself as 'ha' would logically be a prefix not a postifix in my view.

Seeing as the Peshitta uses 'Mar-yah' which means 'the lord yah' then this means that 'Yahovah' is not translated as 'Lord' then. The correct meaning I think of 'Yahovah' is 'He who exists'. But why is 'Mar' put in front of 'yah' rather than just putting out 'Yahovah' in its correct form?

Actually one of the things I don't get is this interpretation of 'Yahovah' as 'lord' i.e. in the KJV and also I think in the Greek. 'Yahovah' does not mean 'lord' at all, its core is the meaning of 'being or existence'. :roll:
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#12
Shlama Akhi,

Gentile Wrote:Thats interesting, seeing as Hebrew makes quite a bit of use and Arabic makes enormous use of the definite article, I suppose one would have assumed that Aramaic being the 'father' of these languages would too.

Yes, but the Aramaic in many ways is more archaic. This is one of them. Hebrew and Arabic are more highly developed.

Quote:Yes you are right the Arabic comes from the Aramaic, I reckon it is possibly an Arabization of the word which became more 'absolute' once monotheism became established amongst the Arabians.

See: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://answering-islam.org/Books/Mingana/Influence/">http://answering-islam.org/Books/Mingana/Influence/</a><!-- m -->

Quote:But why is 'Mar' put in front of 'yah' rather than just putting out 'Yahovah' in its correct form?

Because they didn't want to write the sacred Name. They were early Jewish believers who had the same tradition in this regards as the "Elohists" who altered the OT readings to "Elohim" instead of the original "YHWH."

Also, "YHWH" has a meaning in Hebrew. It does not in Aramaic - in Aramaic, to say the same thing, would be "NHWH".

Besides, "YA(h)" has always been an acceptable contraction for the sacred Name. And including the "Mar" in front of it makes it have the same meaning as the Hebrew phrase "Adonai YHWH".
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#13
Thank you Paul. I assume that shlm akhy would be 'peace brother' - if so, back at you. We must remember that labels applied to languages and nations normally originate from either the name of a person, or event or environmental factor. I reckon that early humanity, i.e. early Adam had a common speech akin to what we label 'Semetic' languages although a lot less 'scientific' in structure [if you catch my drift] and as tribes and nations developed these expanded into differing dialects and various linguistic elements were added to them or taken away. In the case of what the scholarly establishment labels as 'Semetic', the living languages known as Aramaic, Hebrew etc etc come from a common source and retain identifiable similarities. I think a good explanation about 'Hebrew' is given below:

Quote:The term "Hebrew" is derived from the Aramaic word ABAR or
HABAR which means "to cross over." This name was given to the
Hebrew people simply because Abraham and the people who were with
him CROSSED the river Euphrates and went to Palestine. Therefore,
they were known by those who lived east of the river Euphrates
as Hebrews, that is, "the people across the river." All branches
of the great Semitic people had a COMMON speech. How could the
people of Nineveh have understood Jonah, a Hebrew prophet, had
the Biblical Hebrew tongue been different from Aramaic? There was SOME differences similar to the differences we have in English spoken in Tennessee and that spoken in New York.


Hence 'Hebrew' to me is just a dialect of the same source language as Aramaic. 'Arabic' to me is a later version of the same source language. Each developed its own peculiarities based on varying influences. Labels are made for convienience as we like to categorize things for easy examination. I think Genesis indicates the existence of 'Aramaic', which I take to be close to the early source language, and 'hebrew' is the dialect of this spoken by those who crossed over.

By the way regarding the issue about God's name I think there are simply varying titles. 'Yahovah' was told to Mosheh to indicate that 'He exists', Alaha/Elah [Lah being the main component] refers to him being a deity, a god. A rabbi once told me that shm can also mean 'title' as well as 'name' so God has many titles like Shaddai, Elyon etc etc to indicate to us that he is mighty, powerful, kind etc etc.
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