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The Messiah's Name
#16
drmlanc Wrote:"Ye" as in yellow and "shu" as in shoe?

shu' don't forget the ' i.e. the letter 'ayn

drmlanc Wrote:I'll have to stop telling the little ones to put "ye shoes on" to avoid breaking the Law <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
<!-- sSad --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/sad.gif" alt="Sad" title="Sad" /><!-- sSad --> <!-- s:bomb: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bomb.gif" alt=":bomb:" title="The Bomb" /><!-- s:bomb: --> <!-- s:onfire: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/onfire.gif" alt=":onfire:" title="On Fire" /><!-- s:onfire: -->
<!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->

poosh bashlomo havr,
Keepha-Moroown
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#17
"shu' don't forget the ' i.e. the letter 'ayn "

How do I pronounce tha ayn? Do I just say "Ye" as in yellow and "shu" as in shoe? Or shu probably better as in "Schubert" - a 'German' shu, to emphasise the "u" sound. i.e. Ye - shoo

Is that right?
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#18
drmlanc Wrote:"shu' don't forget the ' i.e. the letter 'ayn "

How do I pronounce tha ayn? Do I just say "Ye" as in yellow and "shu" as in shoe? Or shu probably better as in "Schubert" - a 'German' shu, to emphasise the "u" sound. i.e. Ye - shoo

Is that right?

Shlomo oH Chris,

I'll do even better, here's a recording:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.beith-morounoye.org/special/yeshu.wma">http://www.beith-morounoye.org/special/yeshu.wma</a><!-- m -->

I hope this helps!

aloho nbar??kh lokh,
Keepha-Moroown
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#19
Thanks guys you rock <!-- s:bigups: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bigups.gif" alt=":bigups:" title="Big Ups" /><!-- s:bigups: -->

So It's like "ye-shoo-a" and sounds a lot like "Joshua" Brilliant <!-- sBig Grin --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="Big Grin" title="Happy" /><!-- sBig Grin -->

Is Yeshua an appropriate English transliteration?
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#20
Shlomo havr Chris,

drmlanc Wrote:Thanks guys you rock <!-- s:bigups: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bigups.gif" alt=":bigups:" title="Big Ups" /><!-- s:bigups: -->

Lo m??d??m! <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

drmlanc Wrote:So It's like "ye-shoo-a" and sounds a lot like "Joshua" Brilliant <!-- sBig Grin --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="Big Grin" title="Happy" /><!-- sBig Grin -->

Is Yeshua an appropriate English transliteration?

The appropriate transliteration would be Yeshu'
because with Yeshua people would pronounce the 'a' at the end of the word, which the Aramaic doesn't have.

poosh bashlomo oH,
Keepha-Moroown
P.S. I really support your idea to have an article on split-words, they're something that interests me!
<!-- s:bigups: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bigups.gif" alt=":bigups:" title="Big Ups" /><!-- s:bigups: -->
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#21
"The appropriate transliteration would be Yeshu'
because with Yeshua people would pronounce the 'a' at the end of the word, which the Aramaic doesn't have.
"

I see, you pronouce tha a but don't write it. Ye-shoo-a is Yeshu'

"P.S. I really support your idea to have an article on split-words, they're something that interests me!
"

Yeah, they are very very cool - hard linguistic proof that not only is Peshitta supreme, but also that the different Greek mss have variants because of differing translation from the Aramaic. The first BSWA (big split word article) is already compiled (Peshitta.org regulars found the split words, I just compiled them and 'prettied' them up, with English versions of variants etc), and soon I think Paul puts it on Beth Gaza. The second one is nearly finished, with a 3rd on the way. Each has 12 examples, and a few are 'triple split words' <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

Wish I could speak Aramaic then I could find some for myself... My two attempts "agapao/phileo" and "life/salvation" have not been very fruitful. Zorba covered his tracks well... <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: -->
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#22
drmlanc Wrote:"The appropriate transliteration would be Yeshu'
because with Yeshua people would pronounce the 'a' at the end of the word, which the Aramaic doesn't have.
"

I see, you pronouce tha a but don't write it. Ye-shoo-a is Yeshu'

No, we don't pronounce the 'a'.
Listen to the recording again.

drmlanc Wrote:"P.S. I really support your idea to have an article on split-words, they're something that interests me!
"

Yeah, they are very very cool - hard linguistic proof that not only is Peshitta supreme, but also that the different Greek mss have variants because of differing translation from the Aramaic. The first BSWA (big split word article) is already compiled (Peshitta.org regulars found the split words, I just compiled them and 'prettied' them up, with English versions of variants etc), and soon I think Paul puts it on Beth Gaza. The second one is nearly finished, with a 3rd on the way. Each has 12 examples, and a few are 'triple split words' :)

Wish I could speak Aramaic then I could find some for myself... My two attempts "agapao/phileo" and "life/salvation" have not been very fruitful. Zorba covered his tracks well... :lookround:

It's cool that your doing these proofs, they do require lots of patience and time, I hope you don't get discourage Zorba will be caught! :biggrin:

As for learning Aramaic, I highly encourage you to learn it, it's a very beautiful language full of expression and poetry! :)

moryo mbarkokh,
keepha-Moroown
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#23
I will try again for agapao/phileo and life/salvation in my holidays in a few months. Now I'm so busy, I'll concentrate on work others have done and try and make nice article out of them. We seem to me making a deal... the geniuses here will find proof, and I will pretty them up for nice articles <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

Learn Aramaic? I thought about it, but will I ever be good enough to find split words and read Peshitta without English translation? Is that not more something to learn while growing up as a child? Perhaps a lifelong project for me...

As for Yeshu I must be going nuts <!-- sHuh --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/huh.gif" alt="Huh" title="Huh" /><!-- sHuh --> I listened to that recording around 20 times, end after Yeshu he says a or ugh or something. It sounds like "yeah sure" in a funny accent to sound like "ye-shoo-ah". And I think Yeshua is in Hebrew too, so all wins. Are you saying that it should be pronounced "ye-shoo"?
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#24
drmlanc Wrote:I will try again for agapao/phileo and life/salvation in my holidays in a few months. Now I'm so busy, I'll concentrate on work others have done and try and make nice article out of them. We seem to me making a deal... the geniuses here will find proof, and I will pretty them up for nice articles <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

Making them into nice article is something that is worth doing and time consuming. <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

drmlanc Wrote:Learn Aramaic? I thought about it, but will I ever be good enough to find split words and read Peshitta without English translation? Is that not more something to learn while growing up as a child? Perhaps a lifelong project for me...

It doesn't take a life time, just the will to learn. Epsecially given that Aramaic is the easiest semitic language to learn, it being older than the other active semitic tongues. Syriac <=> Aramaic (Common titles for the same language).

If you go through AssyrianLanguage.com:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.assyrianlanguage.com/">http://www.assyrianlanguage.com/</a><!-- m -->
You'll be able to pick up the grammar of the language and the Eastern pronounciaton, and on Beith Souryoy?? Morounoy?? under school of Edessa:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.beith-morounoye.org/">http://www.beith-morounoye.org/</a><!-- m -->
You'll be able to learn the Western pronounciation.
The grammar for East and West is the same, and the AssyrianLanguage.com website has done a great job in presenting the Aramaic grammar.

drmlanc Wrote:As for Yeshu I must be going nuts <!-- sHuh --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/huh.gif" alt="Huh" title="Huh" /><!-- sHuh --> I listened to that recording around 20 times, end after Yeshu he says a or ugh or something. It sounds like "yeah sure" in a funny accent to sound like "ye-shoo-ah". And I think Yeshua is in Hebrew too, so all wins. Are you saying that it should be pronounced "ye-shoo"?

What you here after "shu" is the letter that is called [ '?? or 'ayin] the [ ' ] is what is important, when you pronounce the [ ' ] you have to forget about the [?? or the ayn]. So in the word [ y??shu' ] since the [ ' ] doesn't have a diatrical mark, then it merges to the [shine] which has an [oo] sound vowel. So what you hear is the [ ' ] without any sound after it.

Listen to the following link:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.beith-morounoye.org/syriac/AUDIO/e.wav">http://www.beith-morounoye.org/syriac/AUDIO/e.wav</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.beith-morounoye.org/syriac/AUDIO/alt/'e.wav">http://www.beith-morounoye.org/syriac/AUDIO/alt/'e.wav</a><!-- m -->

-On the first link forget the [ayn] sound and concentrate [ ' ] part of [ 'ayn ].

-On the second link forget the [??] sound and concentrate [ ' ] part of [ '?? ].

The [ ' ] is always the hardest letter for no semitic people to prounounce at first, it takes practice. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

poosh bashlomo,
Keepha-Moroown
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#25
Thanks Akhman!
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#26
The 'y' at the start of the name doesn't appear to be pronounced among Nestorians at least, who make it an 'i'. Jacobites though pronounce the 'y'.

Hear the pronounciation here of 'slt mrn isho msheka':

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.v-a.com/bible/aramaic-jesus.html">http://www.v-a.com/bible/aramaic-jesus.html</a><!-- m -->

Regarding the actual meaning of Jesus's name, why is it the case then that his name was always transliterated 'Jesus' and not 'Joshua' then, if they both had the same name? <!-- sHuh --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/huh.gif" alt="Huh" title="Huh" /><!-- sHuh -->

ps- these new emoticons are wild!
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#27
"Regarding the actual meaning of Jesus's name, why is it the case then that his name was always transliterated 'Jesus' and not 'Joshua' then, if they both had the same name?"

Exactly! Have a good long think. Most will probably not want to step into this territory, but I shall be honest. I believe the terms 'Jesus' and 'Church' are pagan corruptions, and are given to us through the Greek. To me, it makes perfect sense that Satan is the one who has given the Greek texts and its many corruptions and doctrinal confusions to us.

I shall try and find some stuff on 'Jesus' (sounds like Zeus...) and 'Church' for you, I remember a long time ago, that these were some of the pagan corruptions of 'holy' names.
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#28
This site is freaky but talks of corrupted Biblical names that 'sound like' Zeus.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.revelations.org.za/Q&A5.htm">http://www.revelations.org.za/Q&A5.htm</a><!-- m -->

I don't know if such claims are true, but it too has struck me odd, that the English do not call the Messiah by the name of Joshua!

And yeah, the new emoticons are the *we need an emoticon of a real FAT smiley*
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#29
drmlanc Wrote:This site is freaky but talks of corrupted Biblical names that 'sound like' Zeus.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.revelations.org.za/Q&A5.htm">http://www.revelations.org.za/Q&A5.htm</a><!-- m -->

I don't know if such claims are true, but it too has struck me odd, that the English do not call the Messiah by the name of Joshua!

And yeah, the new emoticons are the *we need an emoticon of a real FAT smiley*

It's kinda funny, seeing that "Zeus" in Greek is pronounced "ZEY-oos" not "ZOOS" as they claim. :-)

With this in mind, their entire argument falls through :-)

-Steve-o
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#30
<!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

In any case, it is still strange that Jesus isn't called Joshua or that Joshua isn't called Jesus...
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