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The Messiah's Name
#61
:

Will, <---misnomer

What happend to you when you called upon the "misnomer" of M'shikha? Remember?

Like I said...I have NO problem calling M'shikha by the Name of YEHOSHUA, as it being His Name in Hebrew letters. Perhaps it's spelled and pronunced right too? Maybe not, it doesn't matter, it's not the letters and the sound of it that has the power.

I also see the Aramaic form of His Name in that Hebrew Name, YE HO SHU A...and I don't have a problem with the Aramaic form either. Nor do I have a problem with it in Latin, or in Greek, or in Chinese...or English, and do not despise His Name in any language.

By the way...You used it a bunch in that last post there, but it's a misnomer to call me "Chuck", as that is not the name I was given by my Parents at birth. But it's fine with me that you use that form of it...I know you are speaking to me and it represents who I am just fine, misnomer and all, William. <!-- sWink --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/wink1.gif" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /><!-- sWink -->

Shlama,
Charles
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#62
distazo Wrote:... if this were an issue of holy inspiration and such importance to which our lives depend, well then, why did Yeshu not spell out YHWH or even his own name?
I never said that our lives depend on pronouncing these Names correctly just that it is disrespectful to use a known misnomer such as JEE-zuhs. There is no honor in one knowingly using a misnomer. And I'm not talking about instances of ignorance. But as I said before I do not expect everyone to see this as I have come to. We are all at different points of understandings, and as time goes our understandings change from time to time, yet while some never do change.

Anyway I know of nothing else I can add to this thread as far as understanding the definition of The Anointed Ones Name and how it breaks down.
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#63
I just checked The Aramaic Scriptures, here ---> <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/">http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/</a><!-- m --> and for Zech 6:11, it reads thus: "...take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Y'SHUA..." the letters in the text being Yodh-Shin-Vav-Ayin. This being the same exact form that is seen in The Aramaic Scriptures of The Gospels, Acts, and the Apostolic letters.

Shlama,
Chuck
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#64
Hi Thirdwoe, off-topic question: How did you find Zech 6:11 in Cal?
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#65
The Texas RAT Wrote:
distazo Wrote:... if this were an issue of holy inspiration and such importance to which our lives depend, well then, why did Yeshu not spell out YHWH or even his own name?
I never said that our lives depend on pronouncing these Names correctly just that it is disrespectful to use a known misnomer such as JEE-zuhs. There is no honor in one knowingly using a misnomer. And I'm not talking about instances of ignorance. But as I said before I do not expect everyone to see this as I have come to. We are all at different points of understandings, and as time goes our understandings change from time to time, yet while some never do change.

Anyway I know of nothing else I can add to this thread as far as understanding the definition of The Anointed Ones Name and how it breaks down.

Hi Texas,

I speak a few languages, German, Russian, English French and Dutch.
It is merely impossible to expect all my friends with nativity in their countries to pronounce my name exactly as it is done in Dutch.
I think the same applies to Greek pronunciation. Probably the Greeks simply could not write or say Yeshu(a) because it would look as a female name or some other reason, but I hardly would call it disrespectful.
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#66
:

Click: "Search the Cal Lexical and Textual databases"
Click: "Text Browse"
Click: "Syriac"
Click: "Submit Query"

Then scroll down to the OT books, where Zech is listed as 62025 P Ze

This should tell us something...

Blessings,
Chuck
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#67
:

I've been looking up all the places in the Aramaic OT Scriptures, where Yehoshua (Joshua) appears in the text, and in every place I find it spelled Y'shua or Yodh-Shin-Vav-Ayin. In Zechariah, Ezra, and in Joshua.

Also...in the KJV translation of Ezra 3:8 it has "Yeshua", rather than "Joshua" as it is in the other places...and I think this is because Ezra here is translated from the Aramaic, rather then the Hebrew. This is speaking of the same Person as is spoken of in Zechariah 3, which is speaking about Y'shua/Eshu/Jesus prophetically.

Shlama,
Chuck
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#68
Yeshua and Yehoshua are the same name, but simply in different languages. I don't see why either would make God out to be a liar.
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#69
Hi Dylan,

The wrong teaching says that it has to be spelled and pronounced just so, or it bothers God if you use it after a certain point. That He overlooks it for a while...then gets upset about it...And once you think you have figured it out just right in the Hebrew form, you can't use any other version of His Name in another language.

It's like KJV onlyism, where they think one translation/version of The Bible is inspired and authoritative and no others.

I?ve heard All the arguments through the years...long before Will told me what I should believe...and it ALL fails the test of Truth. There is NO Shame in saying "Jesus"...not a bit of shame. It's His Name in English form, from the Aramaic form, which He and His Disciples all used since the 1st century onwards. If some like the Hebrew form better...then use it. I like it fine as well...But don't go around trying to put shame on His Name in other languages...that's wrong.

Shlama,
Chuck
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#70
Quote:Brother Chuck, what say you - can we give each other over to the Spirit of YHWH to deal with us separately in this matter from here on out?

So be it...sounds good to me Bro.

Shlama,
Chuck
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#71
Thirdwoe Wrote:Hi Dylan,

The wrong teaching says that it has to be spelled and pronounced just so, or it bothers God if you use it after a certain point. That He overlooks it for a while...then gets upset about it...And once you think you have figured it out just right in the Hebrew form, you can't use any other version of His Name in another language.

It's like KJV onlyism, where they think one version of The Bible is inspired and no others are.

I?ve heard All the arguments through the years...long before Will told me what I should believe...and it ALL fails the test of Truth. There is NO Shame is saying Jesus...not a bit of shame. It is His Name in English form, from the Aramaic form that He and His Disciples all used since the 1st century onwards. If some like the Hebrew form better...then use it. I like it fine as well...But don't go around trying to put shame on His Name in other languages...that's wrong.

In your opinion. Personally I am glad I do not share it with you!

The Aramaic OT is not older than the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Dead Sea Scrolls are our oldest witnesses. Try checking the older texts not the newest stuff.

As far as KJV Onylism it is as ignorant of a theology as one can get, I know I used to be one. A little studying got me past it though. I have studied the Anointed One's Name way more than textural studies and before I learned about the name was originally Yehoshua I was taught that it was Yeshua. Just like I studied my way away from KJV Onlyism I also studied past Yeshua. I dare not turn back to either one.

Anyway back to the subject of this thread the definition of the Messiah's name
Gentile Wrote:Can anyone kindly assist in clarifying what the meaning of the Messiah's name is?

... ... ...

I find most people referring to the Messiah as 'Yeshua' which apparently means 'Yah Saves' but is there a possible error in this meaning? In the services in the Assyrian Church in West London [my nearest church] the Messiah is referred to as 'eesho' so it is POSSIBLE that his name could mean 'star' as suggested above and hence referring to the star out of Ya'aqob :?:
Yehoshua is the original form of the name and therefore any transliterations thereof carry the same definition as the original. Putting aside weather transliterations that do not sound exactly like the original name (much less ones that sound 100% different) are good or bad, they still would carry the same exact definition as they should of had the same exact sound. So 'Yah Saves' is not the definition -it is 'He will Save'. Put MarYah in front of it and you get 'Adon Yah He Will Save'. Which fits right in there with Joel 2:32 and Acts 2:21 plus Romans 10:13.
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#72
Will, <---(misnomer) <!-- s:inlove: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/inlove.gif" alt=":inlove:" title="In Love" /><!-- s:inlove: -->

I was willing to do as you wished, but since you responded to me directly about this, I'll respond back.

You stated:
Quote:In your opinion. Personally I am glad I do not share it with you!

But your opinions keep changing, Will. Mine hasn't. I have never had a problem with His name in any other languages. Nor has God.

As I have said, Yehoshua is fine...for the Hebrew form of His Name. Use it if you like, it won't bother me a bit and God won't be mad at you either if you got the letters or sound a bit off from what it might have been like in the 1st century.

Jesus spoke Hebrew & Aramaic, and He had used at least these two forms of His Name while on Earth. I don't have a problem using either of them, nor did He.

What seems to be your hang up, Will, is that you seem to think that the Hebrew form is the more holy one for some reason, and that we must not use any other from once we think we got it down just right, as if God would be upset if we do, or that the Name is less holy or less authoritative if it's not in Hebrew and said just right. If you do think like that, Will, you?re very mistaken. Hebrew is not a "holy language" and more special to God than other languages are. He is no respecter of Persons or languages, and is Worshiped and Praised just as well in all of them.

When Yehoshua/Yeshua is given His New Name by His Father, will you complain if it's not Hebrew?

Shlama,
Chuck
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#73
ScorpioSniper2 Wrote:The word "yeshua" and the name "Yeshua" are different.
May I ask why or on what grounds one asserts that the word and name are different? There seems to be nothing illogical at all in this: His name will be called Salvation for He will save His people from their sins.
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#74
Thirdwoe Wrote:Will, <---(misnomer) <!-- s:inlove: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/inlove.gif" alt=":inlove:" title="In Love" /><!-- s:inlove: -->
What(?) that is how it is spelled on my birth certificate.
My parents named me will, so it, as a name, is not a misnomer when one is referring to me. <!-- s:whaasup: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/whaasup.gif" alt=":whaasup:" title="Whaasup" /><!-- s:whaasup: -->


Thirdwoe Wrote:I was willing to do as you wished, but since you responded to me directly about this, I'll respond back.
Chuck, I was making the one reply before you agreed to disagree. Apparently while I was making my last reply to your previous posting you posted that you agreed to disagree. Again, I was answering the post before you agreed to disagree. I agree that it looks like I posted it after your last post but actually I did it at the same time. Anyway it seemed like a good though at the time, yet all the while once viewing from within hindsight twas perhaps a bad idea?

Anyway, I do wish to respond to a few things in this last post. Especially as to a couple of words you seem to be putting in my mouth - which are highly distasteful (ergo the following regurgitation).
Thirdwoe Wrote:What seems to be your hang up, Will, is that you seem to think that the Hebrew form is the more holy one for some reason, and that we must not use any other from once we think we got it down just right, as if God would be upset if we do, or that the Name is less holy or less authoritative if it's not in Hebrew and said just right. If you do think like that, Will, you?re very mistaken. Hebrew is not a "holy language" and more special to God than other languages are. He is no respecter of Persons or languages, and is Worshiped and Praised just as well in all of them.
First off I do not call Eloheem "God". As God/Gawd/Gahd is the name of a pagan deity and YHWH tells use not to use pagan deity names when referring to Him (So I don't). Any way as I said God is just a figment of feeble man's imagination (i.e.- a pagan deity), and it never had one though period. And on that note I never think it thunk a thing. You must have mistaken me for someone else!

Secondly for the same reason above, I do not call anything Holy (especially when referring to YHWH or anything within His Kingdom) unless I am referring to a pagan deitess.


Anywho, as to your intended message, I still lay claim that transliterations are not of the language they are being used in, they are of the original language. So if one uses an Aramaic, Greek, Latin, or English transliteration of an original Hebrew name they are speaking Hebrew.

Jesus is a transliteration of a Latin transliteration of a Greek transliteration of an Aramaic transliteration which is a transliteration of an original Hebrew name, so (even though the first was poorly done to start with) when one says any of these transliterations they are speaking Hebrew [and poorly at that]. Just like HalleluYah - in the form I present here, is an English transliteration of a Hebrew phrase (i.e. - translates into English as "praise ye Yah") - and when any one says this English transliteration (instead of just saying "praise ye Yah" in English) they are saying a Hebrew phrase. And anything short of 100% phonetics of the original phonetics is poor Hebrew. There is no truthfulness for one to lay claim they are speaking another language as justification for hacking up a the phonetics of a perfectly good name, it just ain't right. And yes, while YHWH listens to and loves us ignorant people (me included), He could care less for our ignorance (Hoshayah[Hosea] 4:6, thence 2nd TimoTheos[Timothy] 2:15).


Thirdwoe Wrote:When Yehoshua/Yeshua is given His New Name by His Father, will you complain if it's not Hebrew?
Oh course not, but at the same time do not expect me to fall for any poorly done transliterations thereof though. I expect to call Yehoshuah by His New Name 100% phonetically as YHWH declares as I possibly can - out of a whole hearted respect unto Both the Namer and Namee.


All such aside, back to this threads original intent.
Concerning the definition of The Anointed One's Name [being all transliterations (whether done correctly or not) are supposed to carry the definition over from the original language (as well as the phonetics)], I understand it means "He will save" (due to the fact that any and all transliteration mentioned in this thread will still carry the definition of the Hebrew name Yehoshua, as it is the original name which the others were supposed to be fashioned after in the first place). So even if you, Chuck, were to be right about YHWH caring less if we use poor transliterations the definition would still remain the same as that of the original Hebrew name - i.e. Yehoshua - (unless someone would like to share some far fetched ideas as to how YHWH does not care if we change the intended definition of His Son's Name too boot(?).

Chuck, if you have a comment(s?) about the definition(s?) of The Anointed One(s?)'s Name(s?) you care to add at this point please do.
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#75
Sarah Wrote:
ScorpioSniper2 Wrote:The word "yeshua" and the name "Yeshua" are different.
May I ask why or on what grounds one asserts that the word and name are different? There seems to be nothing illogical at all in this: His name will be called Salvation for He will save His people from their sins.
I do not wish to put words in ScorpioSniper2's mouth, but perhaps he should of spelled "yeshuah" as the word[H3444] instead of "yeshua". The word yeshuah has a different inflection of yasha than the name[H3442/3443] transliterated as "Yeshua". The word is inflected in a noun form of salvation and the name carries the a verbal form of "yasha". He in action will save His people from their sins, hence bringing yeshuah[salvation] to his people.

Strong's H3442/3443 uses the silent (but anciently guttural) "Ayin" letter to end the word, but H3444 ends in the letter "Heh". While vowel letter under both words indicate they have a similar sounding ending, the different spelling indicates they are two different words.
??
There are different vowel pointing under the first letter - Yod [remember Hebrew and Aramaic reads from right to left]. 3442/3443 (JESHUA) has 2 horizontal dots underneath the first letter like this ( .. ). These two horizontal dots represent the Hebrew Vowel point "Tsere" (pronounced Tsey-rey) which produces the "eh" sound as in the English word "Hey". But 3444 has two vertical dots underneath the first letter like this ( : ). These two vertical dots represent the Hebrew vowel point "Sheva" which is a very short "e", somewhat like our "E" sound in the word "Average". [Check the first page of a Strong's Hebrew Lexicon for verification of this.]

Incidentally, the Sheva( : ) vowel point used by the Masorete scribes in yeshuah is why you will sometimes see it written as y'shuah. The purpose of the ( ' ) is to indicate the presence of the sheva vowel point in Hebrew. But as you can see Yeshua does not contain that vowel point at all. "Yeshua" uses the "Tsere" vowel point (i.e.- .. ) which produces an "eh" sound. Wherefore Yeshua and y?shuah are pronounced differently. The Lexicon indicates this as it gives the pronunciation of Yeshua as 'yay-shoo-ah, but yeshuah as 'yesh-oo-aw.

So the Aramaic name "Yeshua" and the Hebrew word "y'shuah" are not the same. "Yeshua"[H3442/3443] is an Aramaic transliteration of the Hebrew name "Yehoshua"[H3091] and "y'shuah"[H3444] is the Hebrew word/noun for "salvation".
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