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Victor Alexander's Aramaic New Testament
#1
I just ordered it and William Norton's translation of the 17 New Testament Epistles. What does everyone think of Alexander's New Testament?
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#2
I think Victor has some very privet interpretations, and some pretty strange ways of coming up with things...you are in for quite an "idomatic" ride, Dylan...watch your head! ...and test ALL things that you find there. Norton seems pretty careful and normal in getting the right sense across in English, but not as literal as I like it to be.
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#3
Thirdwoe wrote:
Quote:I think Victor has some very privet interpretations
Chuck, you have very good sense of humor...hehehe
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#4
I know of some of them, but what else do I need to know?
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#5
Shalom~Shlama~Shlomo~Salaam ScorpionSniper2, :-)

Victor Alexander's New Testament is a mixture of amazingly good and amazingly bad. A case in point would be Romans 1:26 where from Greek-to-English you would have "left to degraded passions." But fortunately Victor Alexander sees through the smoke and translates "abandoned them to venereal diseases." The Aramaic phrase in question is "Kaba d'Tsera" where 'kaba' has the primary meaning of "medical condition" with dictionary synonyms such as disease, sickness, malady, infirmity, etc. The remainder of the phrase, "d'Tsera" means "of disgrace" or "of shame". Since the passage in question is hitting the topic of homosexuality head on, "disgraceful diseases" would quite naturally be translated (or paraphrased) in modern English vernacular as "venereal diseases." So in this instance, Victor Alexander hits a home run with the bases loaded. :-) However.....there's the down side...and I wish I could remember the passage of Scripture where he incorporates the phrase "heaven's revenge" because it was a horrible translation mistake based on a mistaken, hurried reading of a word root.

Shlama w'Burkate, Bro. Larry Kelsey
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#6
Oops! It looks like you have addressed the issue of Vic using "struggle" and "revenge" when there seems to be no basis for doing so. I have access to Payne-Smith's Compendious, Jennings' Syriac Dictionary, and I look into the Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon periodically but still don't see any recourse for this rendering of Vic's. Your input on YouTube and Amazon is quite inspiring. 1st Corinthians 12:2 is not translated thisxway in any of the other Aramaic-to-English versions.
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#7
Through my reading of Aramaic texts I learned that "keva" means bodily pain or bodily passion e.g. sexual passion or passion of hunger. "Sara" means disgrace, shame.
It is visible that in this case "keva d'sara" means homosexual passion like man to man or woman to woman. It is like for normal male to have sexual desire for a female so they have same desire except male towards male.
Therefore venerical disease is a fiction in his translation, looks like he did not see good though heavy smoke for him.
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#8
Also keep in mind that Victor also continually claims that his translation is based off of some kind of Galilean Aramaic. However, the text he's using is the Syriac Peshitta with modern (non-Classical) pronunciation. I outlined some of these features three years ago on The Aramaic Blog http://aramaicdesigns.blogspot.com/2010/...bible.html. I have also confronted him about this numerous times... but he apparently likes to pretend that I don't exist. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

Meh.

Peace,
-Steve
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#9
Hi Steve,

You claim that you know Galilean Aramaic.
Just curious based on what you believe that you pronounce
as Galileans did?
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#10
I appreciate your complements, Brother Larry!
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#11
SteveCaruso wrote
Quote: but he apparently likes to pretend that I don't exist.

IPOstapyuk wrote
Quote:Hi Steve,
You claim that you know Galilean Aramaic.
Just curious based on what you believe that you pronounce
as Galileans did?
Looks like IPOstapyuk does not exists too.
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#12
More that I only sporadically check this forum, sometimes with months in between. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

IPOstapyuk Wrote:Hi Steve,

You claim that you know Galilean Aramaic.
Just curious based on what you believe that you pronounce
as Galileans did?

I base my presuppositions for Old Galilean first upon on what we know of Middle/Byzantine Galilean and "peel back" to earlier layers by reviewing accounts from Rabbinic and Biblical sources, as well as cross-referencing other related dialects such as Samaritan and Christian Palestinian Aramaic.

The grammar was in many ways quite different (the use of tenses and word order as well as different grammatical structures), vocabulary was quite different in places (a lot of semantic drift caused some words to resolve in one meaning where in other dialects they resolved as another), several consonants were ambiguous (gutterals, and some shifts), and the vowels and vowel patterns were quite different, but regular.

Some of the things that Vic Alexander takes for granted (like the singular 1st person imperfect starting with "ne-", the allophone for kaf sounding like CH in "church", and very solidly Eastern Aramaic vocabulary choices) are categorically incorrect.
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#13
SteveCaruso Wrote:Some of the things that Vic Alexander takes for granted (like the singular 1st person imperfect starting with "ne-", the allophone for kaf sounding like CH in "church", and very solidly Eastern Aramaic vocabulary choices) are categorically incorrect.

Not to mention the fact that Victor Alexander's Neo-Aramaic dialect, that of Urmi, is the most removed from the classical pronunciation. Ashiret dialects (Tkhuma, Tiari and Jilu) are far more archaic, and lack the Persian influences in vocalization that Urmian suffers from ( the "CH" for Kaph that you mention, is wholly absent in Ashiret annunciation, which retains the "Kh" sound as in the gutteral )

+Shamasha
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#14
Just to note: I have checked back recently with Victor Alexander's translating work, and noticed that he has come out with a new version now. And one verse that I had questioned him about in 2012 has been changed in this new version, and now is more correct. At first it looked as he would not change it, as we talked in email, but he has with this new version.

Matthew 28:1

His old version: 1. Then in the evening of the week when Sunday was coming to an end*, there came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, to see the tomb.

His new version: 1. Then as the Sabbath had ended and the first day of the week had begun*, there came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, to see the tomb.

*28:1 Lit. Ar. idiomatic construction: "In the evening of the Sabbath, as the Khaw-sheeba (Sunday) was taking over."

Also, in his new version, He now uses "Eashoa M'sheekhah" for Jesus Christ, "Maran Eashoa M'sheekhah" for our Lord Jesus Christ, "Maryah" for Lord and "Allaha" for God.

And this is pretty strange to me, but, on October 31st this year, Victor has started himself a new Church, and is asking for donations to help him get his new translations out to more people, and to help him make new movies/videos about the life of Jesus. He is asking for half a million dollars, and he seems to see himself as an Apostle of some sort, with starting his new "apostolic church". I take it then that he no longer is part of The Church of the East?

He is calling his new church, "The Ancient Aramaic Church" and by sending him donations, he will make you a "charter member" of his new "apostolic church".

This all seems pretty strange and wrong headed to me. Why not just start an online fund drive to help get his translations to more people, and help make his videos about the life of Jesus, without trying to start a new "church"? Anyway, here is his page where this is talked about.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ancient-aramaic-church">http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ancie ... aic-church</a><!-- m -->

And it looks like he has decided to make his new translations available to everyone now online, which can be read at the right of his new bible home page at the link below. Before if you wanted to read his old translation, you had to send a donation to read them online, or buy the printed edition.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.v-a.com/bible/">http://www.v-a.com/bible/</a><!-- m -->

.
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#15
If God is behind his new mission, it will succeed. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
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