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FEASTS OF THE JEWS?
#1
Throughout Messianic discussions there is significant emphasis on the affirming of Torah and the Feasts of YHWH. I am all for this but am somewhat perplexed regarding some of the arguments presented regarding YHWH's feasts.

Throughout Torah I agree that they are absolutely referred to as being the Feasts of YHWH. This is often presented as an argument alongside statements such as "They are not the feasts of the Jews but rather the feasts of the LORD."

This I consider a reasonable statement in light of the TNK textual evidence.

However I have discovered some difficulties when marrying this with the writings of the Netzarim. Specifically I refer to a number of references in the book of Yohannan (John).

John 5:1 "the feast of the Jews." The Aramaic peshitta also sites Yehudeans
John 6:4 "the Passover, a feast of the Jews." Also contained in Aramaic Peshitta
John 7:2 "Jew's feast of Tabernacles." Again also evident in Aramaic Peshitta.

Are such references evidences that John was attaching cultural and Jewish specificity to the Feasts? I hope this is not the case and would welcome some insights and discussion on this topic

Blessings
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#2
If I recall correctly, John tended to write in this manner, often referring to the Pharisees as "the Y'hudaeans," or as rendered today "the Jews."
Though this was clearly not meant to be derogatory in manner, it is taken by anti-missionaries, skeptics, and perhaps even some in faith-communities, in such a way.
So we have to address these references in a similar manner. Perhaps we can understand his words here as saying, "the feasts kept by the house of Y'hudah."
Rather than being a feast belonging to the people of Y'hudah, it's a feast guarded by the people of Y'hudah.

We also see Yeshua making some remarks regarding the Instruction also only in the book of Yohanan:
  • Jhn 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
  • Jhn 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
The former is referring to Torah proper, the latter to the Psalms. What do you make of him referring to the Torah of YHWH "your Law'" (i.e. "the Law of the Jews")?
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#3
carvston Wrote:Throughout Messianic discussions there is significant emphasis on the affirming of Torah and the Feasts of YHWH. I am all for this but am somewhat perplexed regarding some of the arguments presented regarding YHWH's feasts.

Throughout Torah I agree that they are absolutely referred to as being the Feasts of YHWH. This is often presented as an argument alongside statements such as "They are not the feasts of the Jews but rather the feasts of the LORD."

This I consider a reasonable statement in light of the TNK textual evidence.

However I have discovered some difficulties when marrying this with the writings of the Netzarim. Specifically I refer to a number of references in the book of Yohannan (John).

John 5:1 "the feast of the Jews." The Aramaic peshitta also sites Yehudeans
John 6:4 "the Passover, a feast of the Jews." Also contained in Aramaic Peshitta
John 7:2 "Jew's feast of Tabernacles." Again also evident in Aramaic Peshitta.

Are such references evidences that John was attaching cultural and Jewish specificity to the Feasts? I hope this is not the case and would welcome some insights and discussion on this topic

Blessings
Dear carvston,
From time to time I visit at a synagogue. Speaking in a kind of "national/ethnic possessive" about the Feasts is something I observe to be a common usage among those Jews, much like the way they say "Moses" even when referring to portions of Torah clearly quoting YHWH word-for-word. Doing so appears not to be meant to imply that the words don't belong to YHWH.

So, perhaps the problem is not with the phrase or with John's usage, but rather comes when those of us from outside Jewish heritage read these phrases without their correct cultural context, instead superimposing another. In trying to wrap our heads around what we're reading, many of us have only our Gentile backgrounds from which to draw - a background which makes phrases like "feasts of the Jews" take on entirely different meanings due to the anti-jewish history of Christianity and Hellenic culture. The phrase "law of Moses" also seems to evoke cultural programming differently between Jew & Gentile.

I would say that the Feasts and the Law are fairly said to be both YHWH's and of the Jews, for he who said, "these are MY Feasts" and "MY commandments" also "gave" them to Israel. I believe that whatsoever God gives is still His, but is shared with the recipient.
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#4
We definitely look forward to partnering with the Federation again soon.

In my Opinion to this Online Torah is great and we can see and learn a lot of what is the meaning of Jewish and Torah and it will help us to know what is the different when you learn Jewish and Torah.We love to announce that we have a Jewish history and now you can receive our weekly torah in arabic.We definitely look forward to partnering with the Federation again soon.

Thank you so much for the great reading,
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