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Origins of the PDF files
#1
Hi !

Writing from France, I would like to ask you :
The Peshitta electronic version in PDF files you're giving on your website is excellent, and very useful.
Could you tell us from which edition it is selectef from ? Lamsa ? Cureton ?
What manuscript are behind ?

I'm asking you this question, because I believe there is quite a difference between the Pshytta version before Raboula and after. The only full manuscript of the four gospels existing before the work of Raboula is the Vat Sir 12 (in Vatican Library).

See here : <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://books.google.fr/books?id=3-aPhD7jem4C&dq=An+Album+of+Dated+Syriac+Manuscripts&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=CnBBnMP5vA&sig=R81fL7A_2w5G0OPbrkjhjjzAdbo&hl=fr&ei=0A-1SY3DLITHjAf13sntBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result">http://books.google.fr/books?id=3-aPhD7 ... &ct=result</a><!-- m -->

Thanks for your answer.

EEChO
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.eecho.fr">http://www.eecho.fr</a><!-- m -->
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#2
shlomo EEChO,

Without answering for Paul, and in regards to manuscript Vat Sir 12

The date on the manuscript, according to the dated album is 548AD, and Rabulla was a bishop between 412-435AD

I looked over the page presented in the album from the manuscript, and it is from Mat 9:18 (starting at the 4th word) to Mat 9:28 (stopping at 5th word from the end)
The text is identical to the usual Peshitta, except in Mat 9:21 there's a "d" in front of "ophen"

If you have access to the entire manuscript, I would love to have a copy of it.

push bashlomo,
keefa-morun
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#3
Thank you for your answer.

But what do you call the "usual Peshitta" ? What are the manuscripts behind ? That is what I would like to understand.
Of course we are talking about the Peshitta and not the Peshitto.

No, unfortunately I don't have a copy of this manuscript, but I know someone who does, but he has is in his attic for a long time now, and can't find it ! It's a shame.

Other solution : going to the Vatican Library, but I'm not planning that for the moment !

EEChO
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#4
shlomo EEChO,

But what do you call the "usual Peshitta" ?

The version that has been handed down generation after unbroken generation in Syriac-Aramaic.

What are the manuscripts behind ? That is what I would like to understand.

The manuscripts some of which are available online, while others (i.e the Majority) are located in the Church archive (at least the ones we were able to keep from getting burned by the invaders.)

Here's the Peshitto version used by the Maronites:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cdm.csbsju.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/SJRareBooks&CISOPTR=2893&REC=12">http://cdm.csbsju.edu/cdm4/document.php ... 893&REC=12</a><!-- m -->

Here's the Peshitta version used by the Assyrians:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com/khabouris/download.php">http://www.dukhrana.com/khabouris/download.php</a><!-- m -->

Of course we are talking about the Peshitta and not the Peshitto.

The difference between the Peshitta and Peshitto is less than 1 percent, and has been way overblown.
(Please compare the above two links to see what I mean)

push bashlomo,
keefa-morun
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#5
abudar2000 Wrote:shlomo EEChO,
The text is identical to the usual Peshitta, except in Mat 9:21 there's a "d" in front of "ophen"
If you have access to the entire manuscript, I would love to have a copy of it.

Hello Abudar. This smal change you've noticed, does it change the meaning of the sentence or not ?

Other question : there is letters in the middle written in other way. Do you know what it is, can you read it ?
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#6
shlomo EEChO,

EEChO Wrote:Hello Abudar. This smal change you've noticed, does it change the meaning of the sentence or not ?

It doesn't change the meaning of the sentence

EEChO Wrote:Other question : there is letters in the middle written in other way. Do you know what it is, can you read it ?

It is a lectionary note for the Dawn of the 1st in the week (aka. evening - ramsho) prayers for the sixth Sunday (probably of lent) => noghah had bsh- deshto

noGHah => Dawn of
Had bSH- => The 1st in the week
deSHto => Of the Sixth

This manuscript was most likely used by a monk, and the lectionary note was written by a different hand than that of the Text.

Updated on: 13-mar-2009, 7:36AM-ET
Updated on: 13-mar-2009, 6:37AM-ET

push bashlomo,
keefa-morun
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#7
abudar2000 Wrote:shlomo EEChO,

But what do you call the "usual Peshitta" ?

The version that has been handed down generation after unbroken generation in Syriac-Aramaic.

What are the manuscripts behind ? That is what I would like to understand.

The manuscripts some of which are available online, while others (i.e the Majority) are located in the Church archive (at least the ones we were able to keep from getting burned by the invaders.)

Here's the Peshitto version used by the Maronites:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cdm.csbsju.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/SJRareBooks&CISOPTR=2893&REC=12">http://cdm.csbsju.edu/cdm4/document.php ... 893&REC=12</a><!-- m -->

Here's the Peshitta version used by the Assyrians:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com/khabouris/download.php">http://www.dukhrana.com/khabouris/download.php</a><!-- m -->

I will come back to the signs on the manuscript in an other post later.
Thank you for your answer.
Now, here is what I founded :
"5. (B) The second oldest version is the "Peshitta" (= "common" or "vulgate"; Syrp or Syrpes), extant in over 350 manuscripts (the oldest of which dates from the fifth cent.). Its genesis is placed in the early- to mid-fifth century. Unlike the vetus syra, whose circulation was apparently limited (it was overshadowed by the more ancient Diatessaron), the Peshitta enjoyed the approval of clergy whose allegiance was to the Western "Great Church"; it became the standard NT of the Syrian church. The Diatessaron--which from antiquity had been the standard text of the Syrian church--was swept aside in the 420s by the "Great Church" bishops (e.g., Rabbula of Edessa, Theodoret of Cyrrhus), whose allegiance lay with Rome and Constantinople, not the traditions of Edessa and Jerusalem (cf. the Doctrina Addai and the much-remarked upon and striking disjunction between bishop Aggai [Jerusalem-oriented] and his successor bishop Palut [Rome-oriented]; see, e.g., Bauer 1971: 16-17). The Peshitta represents a careful, quite consistent rendering of its fourth- or fifth-century Greek base. "
I've read it here : <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://rosetta.reltech.org/TC/vol02/Kiraz1997rev.html">http://rosetta.reltech.org/TC/vol02/Kiraz1997rev.html</a><!-- m -->
So if this is right, it would mean that there is many manuscripts for the Peshitta / Peshitto traditions. Now, if I understand well, the differences between theses manuscripts are really low, right ?
So Kabouris is one of them. Is it a good one ?
And the official version of the Peshitta/o can be found for example in the work of Gwillian. Am I right or not ?
To conclude, the PDF files of this site, where are they taken from (I mean the reference text), from Gwillian ?

Thanks,

Samuel.
EEChO
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.eecho.fr">http://www.eecho.fr</a><!-- m -->
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#8
Samuel,

This should help you in some answers: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org/beth-sapra/library.html">http://www.peshitta.org/beth-sapra/library.html</a><!-- m --> (see PDFs at the bottom).

See also some comments in :
<!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1393&p=8022">viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1393&p=8022</a><!-- l -->
I'm sure in many past threads as well, Search button is your friend.

Peace and blessings,
Jerzy
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