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Major difference between MARI/PEACE and Bauscher's NT
So what exactly are they? I already have D. Bauscher's version (with and without footnotes), and I would like to know why I should purchase PEACE, if even necessary. My NT is very readable, distuinghes MARYA from Maran/lord, fixes many greek errors, and carries all 27 books of the Bible along with convincing codes to prove its canon. Anything that PEACE offers that I dont already have? Thank you all.

I also have Dave's Aramaic-English NT, and for the most part I do like it a lot but I'm going to get a copy of Mari/PEACE as soon as its released. I think the best person to ask is Albion, as Albion has read Dave's gospels and was lucky enough to read Matthew of Mari/PEACE, he'll be able to tell you the major differences in the translation itself.

From what AGR has told us about Mari, it's going to be very different from Dave's NT. Mari is translated from the eastern text (except for the W5), and uses proper eastern Judeo Aramaic pronunication throughout. And while Dave's version says "Lord Jehovah" Mari has the proper Sacred Name (Yahweh, or is it MarYah? Confirmation akh Andrew?). Mari will also contain a very extensive commentary, many footnotes & study sections, it's going to be a much thicker book than Dave's NT. Looks like Mari can be described as a Nazarene "Mikraot Gedolot" - text, translation, commentary and much more.

I'll let AGR & Albion take it from here, but I'm sure you'll want to get yourself a copy, once its out and the rest of us a raving about it, LOL.
Shlama Akhi Runggold,

I have not read Bauscher's NT, nor has he read mine, so this is kind of difficult to answer. But I can draw reasonable inferences from what David has said about his work and what I have read on his website.

Mari is far more than a translation. It is a Nazarene halachic and historical encylopedia combined with tons of footnotes and an interlinear. There are 700+ pages of translation-interlinear and about 350 pages of supplemental footnotes. My emphasis is on the original eastern Aramaic readings and the most reliable Aramaic surviving readings of the Western 5. David is coming from his spiritual view and I am coming from mine, so I think it is easy to see where he would go and where I go.

As Christina said, sacred names are restored in Mari as Master YHWH, Elohim and Y'shua, and there are a great many supplemental articles on First Century Judaism, canon, Josephus as possibly a Nazarene believer and some very detailed prophecy-heavenly calendar work. This is just off the top of my head. There are 70+ topics in the appendices alone and additional significant materials in the intro as well.

But again, I don't know what Bauscher does in his version to say to you "Well I did this and he did that". I do know that Bauscher and I have a slight disagreement as to what the "perfect Peshitta" looks like and the Aramaic text reflects that difference, however minor it is. I think the real strength of Mari though is that I go to great lengths to annotate differences between Eastern and Western Aramaic traditions and between those and the Greek. I do this because, regardless as to what my opinion is, I want my readership to think about the variants and make up their own mind.

That's the best I can say.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
Shlama Mishpacha,

Albion has made it known through channels that have reached me, that he has been very desirous to reply to this thread, but presently cannot. Please pray for him, all of you, with all your might, that YHWH would give to him victory concerning his very grievous "technical problems" situation, of which most of you probably are aware of by now. He literally cannot communicate to this Forum right now due to outside hindrance, which to my understanding, has also an active presence on this Forum. Now, this "technical difficulties" virus has also recently penetrated my computer systems, where I've received false emails from him with nothing in them (key-logging programs), and other "shadow" problems. I would pray that all of us here can be "man enough" and "woman enough" to pray together with all our might, and exercise through all our free-will abilities to act, together, in resisting this stumbling block to not only our dear brother and dearest believer, but for ourselves every one of us, as well. I know that this problem is effecting others as well.

In addenda to this specific information and prayer request, I would also boldly illicit your heart-felt prayers and intercession for Albion's health. He has been very miserable these past couple of days, and I would like to remind you all of Moshe's "helpers" who held up his arms from sagging during Israelite battle one time. Albion has been very brave thus far, and it's come time that all those who would call themselves believers, come together and stand as echad / ONE, so that perhaps we could collectively at least squeeze out the faith of a tiny mustard seed. I have desired this for my life, and pray to God for this faith in me for others myself, and I think the problem really, is us. But, if this is too "theological", then perhaps I should look elsewhere for Biblical scholarship. I do not believe only in debates, especially about the most supernatural Text in the entire universe. And especially when the Peshitta NT is Itself a 100% theological Treatise from Heaven Itself. So please, let's all stand together (per the Peshitta's desire, at least) for at least one man, until this one man receives enough faith to be set free, yes?

Then, perhaps we can go in pecking order down a list, and watch Andrew, Christina, Dave, Dawid, Otto, Paul, Rafa, RunGold, Stephen, and everyone else be lifted up and set free in their personal lives, as Yeshua died so horribly for. Persecution for the Gospel's sake is one thing, but all of us lagging around in life as gimps looking instead more like a complete denial of the very Gospel we profess, is an entirely different (and eisegetical) matter. And I'm looking in the mirror, so don't give me any excuses; give me your prayers instead.

Affectionately yours,

Akh Ryan

First, thanks to Ryan for his kind post.

Things are tough, but when things get tough, the tough turn to Alaha.

To the enemy, I may be set back, but here I am writing at despite your best efforts.

About the differences between Dave Bauscher's New Testament, and Matthew's Gospel of Mari/P.E.A.C.E.

Think about Lamsa's New Testament, it was only a fair version of the P'shitta NT.

To say the very best................

Bauscher's Plain English Aramaic NT is far ahead of Lamsa's NT.

But Mari is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Bauscher's NT!

I would personally would call it "a Nazarene" translation of the Eastern P'shitta NT.

It avoids using terms like "Jehovah" that are what I call "ghost words".

It is a Faithful rendering of the Eastern Syriac P'shitta into modern English done with precision and skill by a very talented translator......Andrew Gabriel Roth.

All I read was Matthew's Gospel, but I suggest that you go and read my review of said document.

I was, and still am, extremely impressed with Mari/P.E.A.C.E.!!

It so much better than Bauscher's translation that there is really NO comparing the two.

I have Bauscher's Plain English NT, and his Four Gospels Interlinear.

Neither of these even come close to the power and spiritual substance of Mari. PERIOD.

If you DON'T purchase a copy of Mari/P.E.A.C.E., I will tell you that you will miss the nearest that we're gonna ever have to a "perfect" translation of the P'shitta NT.

And I don't mean to say ANY of this to attack Dave Bauscher. Yes, it's true that I am, it's fair to say, still upset by his brazen and evil attack on Andrew, but he fell to the enemy's attack, and suffice it to say, the enemy is active on this List right now.

But Dave still KNEW BETTER then to attack Andrew in such a manner.

If your looking for a really studious translation of the Peshitta, I sincerely encourage you to consider buying Mari/P.E.A.C.E. .................If not, it'll be your loss.

The language is really the Eastern Syriac text superbly translated with a sort of Nazarene/Messianic feel to it.

If you can read just a little transliterated Syriac, which most of us here CAN, your gonna LOVE this translation!

It's NOT translated from a modern "Christian" world view either, but is much more of an ancient Aramaic to English translation.

Frankly, some of Dave's work reflects his own Baptist world view, and Andrew's Mari is Light Years ahead of this, as I said earlier.

There is more that I could say, but I've probably said too much already.

Apologies if I offended anyone here with anything that I said.

"Behold, I saw satan fall like lightning...................."

Shlama all, Albion
Dear Rafa,

Have you actually READ ANY of Andrew's Mari/P.E.A.C.E.?

If so, please state that fact. If NOT, how do you really know ANY of this?

Peace, Albion
Shlama Rafa,

Quote:I with all frankness view Dave and Andrew's New Testaments as complementary: one will advance the cause of Aramaic primacy within the framework of traditional Christianity (which is a *seismic* event- a complete shift from the Hellenic worldview which bases itself to a very large degree on a Greek NT to a thoroughly different one), while the other will attempt to analyze and correct the errors of the Christian Church (a view of the New Testament theology from a *completely* different angle) and point to the higher reliability of the Eastern textual base. It will also serve as a "Guide for the perplexed" for all those Nazarenes out there who are being misled by the people I just mentioned. These translations aren't working against each other, they are just different. Each translator puts his paradigm, his vision in his NT. Akhi Paul for instance likes to write from the perspective of a clergyman of the COE. I also think Dave shouldn't have attacked Andrew like that but I know he is just being passionate and that he MISUNDERSTOOD where Andrew was going. He needs to open up a bit to other perspectives.

Very well said akhi, I believe. And yes, my anticipations for M.A.R.I. derive their conclusiveness from the same sources as yours - Andrew's previous scholarship in both his books and his contributions here at the forum. And Albion is right, he is the only one who has actually read a sampling so far, so his perspective is straight from the horse's mouth. But not having read a sample for myself, I still think your perspectives here highlighted some truths in an important way.


Shlama my brothers Albion, Rafa, Ryan and all---

Albion is the only person other than myself, Shali, Baruch and some other helpers, who have seen Mari/PEACE. I can assure everyone that my approach is in every respect identical from the Ruach Qadim books in particular, so I also think folks like Rafa and Ryan who have read the last two books can make reasonable inferences on my techniques and such. My translation style is also somewhat, though not precisely according to how I did Mari, represented in my Galatians translation on my websites. That however was transliterated in English characters and translated--not an interlinear format as Mari is.

I would say that to any who have liked my previous work in my first three books, you should like Mari a great deal more. It is, quite honestly, the culmination of all I did before it, and everything I did is reflected in it in one way or another.

Rafa and Albion both are correct in terms of what I have done. I appreciate everyone's support immensely. I pray that their expectations will be met with my endeavors, as well as everyone else's here. I also agree that there is room for many translations of the NT from people of all viewpoints, including Bauscher's. I have at least 100 versions of Scripture in my library so I know how and why a lot of different versions come about. On the other hand, I guess if I was pleased with any of those, I probably would not have done one on my own.

We are almost there people. I approved the cover an hour ago. Now it goes to final physical print. Stay tuned.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
Shlama all,

Albion, welcome back and good to see you in high spirits again. Ryan, thanks for that encouraging constructive criticism. And rungold, I agree with Rafa concerning Mari vs Bauscher, I think they will be complementary. How many Bible versions do you own? One more wouldn't hurt now would it? I remember akhan Andrew saying a while back that some samples will be released near the time of official publication, probably when the Netzari Press website goes up. Then you'll be able to decide, if what we've said so far hasn't yet convinced you. Either way, I don't think anyone who gets a copy of akh Andrew's Mari will regret it. Now we're just waiting for akhay Paul & Yaaqub to complete & bring out their translations. And Dave Bauscher is working on the Peshitta OT, and I very happy about that and wish him all the best where that's concerned.
But who's underlying text is superior? There ARE differences in them, so either one version is correct, and the other incorrect. Does Roth's NT point out repeatedly how suspicious it is of the "Western Five"? With much respect to Andrew, it doesnt matter how beautiful, nazarene-like, and ancient his version is, I think the underlying text which the whole NT and footnotes are BASED ON should be as close as possible to the original. Which is where I suspect (i didn't say "know"), Dave B.'s version might be a little more valuable, at least in that category. Any views on this? <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: -->
All i can say is that every textual challenge that i know of is dealt with in Mari. That includes western 5 problems, old syriac and hebrew matthew forgeries and so on. In gerneral i show the variants to the reader rather than just pick one and forget sbout it and i footnote competing ones so you all can choose best for yourselves.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth

Sorry if I missed it stated in previous posts or threads (haven't actually read them all yet after a break) - does your edition actually have the Aramaic text, translation and comments all together (e.g. on facing pages, like in some nice Torah editions, where you have the text, Onkelos and some other comments all easy to read and check)?

Shlama Akhi Jerzy,

I believe you have been away from us for some time so welcome back! Great to have you on the forum! <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

To answer your question, yes, Mari has all those things. It is an interlinear with about 1600 footnotes (265 or so in Matti alone) and it is a "Critical Edition" in that it explores in great detail the variants from Old Syriac, Hebrew Matthews and of course the Greek families. Mari also delves into earlier and later Aramaic readings in the Western 5 and links extensively with Tanakh of course as well. The text is standardized and stabilized in both Aramaic and English and the Aramaic is POINTED Estrangela, or Midyat.

Beyond these things, there are nearly 360 pages of intro and appendices that wrap around the Aramaic and English translation.

Hope this helps!

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
September 5, 2008

In the introduction to his ???The Original Aramaic New Testament in Plain English??? Dave Bauscher states:

???I believe what I have in my possession and from which I have translated here (The Aramaic text, not the translation itself) is the exact, word for word, letter for letter, original and Divinely authored New Testament! It contains no errors of any kind historical, grammatical, orthographical, textual, geographical, scientific, or theological!???

Dave is not using the Eastern Peshitta, but rather he is using a version of the Peshitto that received when he purchased the ???CodeFinder??? computer program. I think it may be the same version that is found in the ???Online Bible??? which is called ???Peshitta??? but which has 27 books and is apparently a version of the Western Peshitto.

Dave???s position on the Aramaic text of the New Testament is quite rigid. He is convinced that he has been chosen by God for a ???divine contact??? given by ???Bible Codes??? that he has uncovered in the Western Peshitto text. In fact, he seems to believe that the Western Peshitto that he used is the ONE AND ONLY PERFECT TEXT and it has exactly 461,094 letters. This is the divine and perfect text that has the Bible codes that he has been chosen by God to ???discover???. Even a small change of the text would create a text that is no longer PERFECT.

Dave???s text cannot be perfect since it does not agree perfectly with the 22 books of Eastern Peshitta or of the Khaboris Manuscript which most of us believe to be the most reliable. For example, Dave???s text has the woman in adultery in Chapter 8 of John. The Peshitta does not.

The main reason that Dave makes this incredible claim is that he really believes his Bible Code interpretations, but his conclusions are faulty because he has misinterpreted the statistical variability associated with the random sorting of letters in words, phases, and sentences. I have explained this in detail to him, but to no avail. I evaluated his methods and analyzed his Bible Code data and explained to him that there is really nothing significant in any of his results. [My explanation can be found in the Aramaic Bible Codes section of this forum.]

The whole Bible code process is really somewhat silly. Any objective statistician or actuary will recognize its flaws. Unfortunately, the Bible Code claims can be a serious distraction that interferes with logical and scholarly consideration of the wonderful Peshitta text.

I look forward to reading Andrew???s translation of the true Peshitta text.


Hmmm, then im definitely gonna buy MARI. When's the exact time that it comes out? I know there are threads on this subject, but theres always a different time and a different reason of its delayal.

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