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For Andrew Gabriel Roth
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01-21-2008, 08:26 PM
Paul Younan Wrote:He did bring to my attention, which is true now that I'm paging through the text, that this is the western text and not the eastern. Shlama, This is good to know. Thank you for sharing this additional tidbit of information.
01-21-2008, 08:53 PM
Dear Paul,
THANK YOU for asking Father Klutz that for me. I wish that I still had his letter to me about this subject! Yes, James Trimm's HRV follows slavishly, word-per-word, chapter-by-chapter, and Book by Book, The Way International's Interlinear Aramaic/English New Testament. BUT Trimm "Hebraricized" a lot of words, YHWH for God, Adonai for Lord, Hebrew names for ALL the Disciples and also Eloah (I believe, I don't have it in front of me as I type) for God again, and so on....... If The Way was so quick to jump on YOU, than I say WHY NOT on James Trimm!? The ISR (International Scriptural Research) people in South Africa claimed that they could NOT GET a copy of the 3 Volume Aramaic/English Interlinear New Testament, so I sent them the URL for the Eternally Blessed Bookstore, where they are sold. ISR claims that they HAVE TO HAVE a copy of The Way Int. New Testament to PROVE the plagiarism against James Trimm. I wrote them with that URL on December the 10th, 2007...........NOT a word in return! You wanna KNOW WHY? Because they are making a KILLING by selling Trimm's plagiarized HRV to the International Messianic Community. What a wicked web we weave! This whole Trimm soap opera has been, and still remains, just sickening!! Shlama, Albion Paul Younan Wrote:I will ask Qasha (Elder) Klutz and let you know if he remembers anyones name.
01-21-2008, 09:03 PM
Albion, have you confronted akhan Trimm about this in a brotherly fashion? If you have not, then please do not go about talking about it. Don't merely complain and talk behind the man's back. If we have an issue with our brother, we are commanded to take it to him first.
01-21-2008, 09:11 PM
Dawid,
After our last confrontation, your on my "ignore" list. Life is tough, huh? Dawid Wrote:Albion, have you confronted akhan Trimm about this in a brotherly fashion? If you have not, then please do not go about talking about it. Don't merely complain and talk behind the man's back. If we have an issue with our brother, we are commanded to take it to him first.
01-21-2008, 09:12 PM
Dear Albion Guppy,
Thank you for your feedback to the Institute for Scripture Research! The ISR welcomes all suggestions, questions and inquiries. If you are writing regarding an order, please be assured that we will take care of this matter as soon as possible. We trust that the quality of our services and publications will meet your expectations. If you are offering suggestions for future editions of The Scriptures, we undertake to look into the validity of such suggestions. Due to the tremendous amount of emails we receive, we apologize that we cannot answer each letter individually. Once again, Thanks! Please click on the link below to order any more of our publications: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.isr-messianic.org/">http://www.isr-messianic.org/</a><!-- m --> Best Regards, ISR For your records: Included below is the data we received from you: ----------------------------------------------- Your Unique Reference Number: 20071210-8930-2097 Name: Albion Guppy Company Name: none Contact eMail: <!-- e --><a href="mailto:gy.al51@yahoo.com">gy.al51@yahoo.com</a><!-- e --> Country: USA Phone: *************** Fax: Subject: James Trimm's Plagiarism Message: Dear ISR, You can find PROOF of James Trimm's plagiarism here: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.eternallyblessed.com/page/page/4283835.htm">http://www.eternallyblessed.com/page/page/4283835.htm</a><!-- m --> <!-- e --><a href="mailto:Messianic_Apologetic@yahoogroups.com">Messianic_Apologetic@yahoogroups.com</a><!-- e --> From: "gy.al51" <gy.al51@yahoo.com> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoogroups.com. Learn more Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 23:32:23 -0000 Subject: [Messianic_Apologetic] About 'The Way Int. Aramaic/English Interlinear New Testament Dear Schumel, Those five books have been printed and available since around the Fall of 2006, I think, and perhaps before that time.. I did a bid over on E-Bay for all of them about a year ago, that I lost in the last 30 seconds or so. They were THEN being sold by 'Belieze BRC.' I *THINK* that 'BRC' means something in 'The Way International Speak'. I mean that BRC is an acronym for some Way Int. way of saying things. Then about 4 months ago, 'The Eternally Blessed Bookstore', took over for Belieze BRC, and they have been selling these books since then. They are BRAND NEW, and come wrapped in plastic. I'm not sure WHERE that they are being printed. I tried probably three times to e-mail this (Eternally Blessed) bookstore, but so far, I've never gotten a reply. My best friend in Arkansas bought them for me for my birthday. What a lovely gift! That's about all that I know about these books. Hope that this helps. Shalom, Albion ============ ========= ========= ========= ======= (mod note) Yep. Thanks. Now, who should write to ISR? They can finish their research project of sorts on the plagiarism issues. (Those who read our plagiarism article on this will know that this is not really necessary, that the plagiarism was 100% proved by going over a good number of chapters. However the AEINT unavailability was the ISR 'out' for a season, which allowed them to continue to publish and sell the tainted material. Around earlier 2006 I even corresponded with them about the then limited AEINT availability, with suggestions and leads. Now with the AEINT material completely available at a reasonable enough price they can purchase and peruse and compare -- and then explain their position, being better informed, about publishing and selling the HRV. Or they could announce the suspension of their involvement upon verifying the plagiarism more fully.) HAPPY HUNTING! Albion Guppy Time and Date of Submission: 22:07:38 12/10/2007 GMT2 Pacific Time ------------------------------------ Albion Wrote:Dear Paul,
01-21-2008, 09:31 PM
Albion Wrote:Dawid,Akhi Albion, I don't think this is any way to act. I overreacted, true. But we're supposed to be brothers. Hineh mah tov umah nayim sheveth akhim gam yakhad. No. Life is full of joy if we only know where to look. We shouldn't have a need to be angry with eachother. We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother; but ne'er so vile, This day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England, now-a-bed, Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here, And hold their manhoods cheap while any speaks That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's Day. Shalom, Dawid
01-21-2008, 10:51 PM
All anyone here needs to know:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.lebtahor.com/truth/trimm/jamestrimm.htm">http://www.lebtahor.com/truth/trimm/jamestrimm.htm</a><!-- m --> And: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.lebtahor.com/truth/trimm/plagiarisms/HRVAveryPaper.htm">http://www.lebtahor.com/truth/trimm/pla ... yPaper.htm</a><!-- m --> DON'T LET James, Trimm YOUR pocketbook! Or as Andrew quoted; "Touch NOT, the unclean THING!"
01-21-2008, 11:18 PM
Albion Wrote:All anyone here needs to know: Shlama, Very revealing information. Thanks Albion. Ya'aqub
01-22-2008, 02:29 AM
Shlama all--
I don't know what 99% of the last 12 posts here have to do with me. You should change the thread name. As for Trimm, I have not said anything that cannot be proved absolutely from multiple witnesses, including his lack of teshuvah, as this is what Torah requires. Calling something bad and lashon hara are two different things. To not call this bad is endorse it as good, and a false report can just as easily be about sweeping unpleasant details under the rug. I believe in mercy with repentance, not "sloppy agape". Incidentally, while I blame Trimm for a lot of things, I don't think he plagiarized the Horribly Ruined Version (HRV). I think it is so terrible that it must be all his own work. Then again, I don't have a copy of the Way International's version to know for sure. Still I don't care WHY it's worthless. I just know that it is. Shlama w'burkate Andrew Gabriel Roth
01-22-2008, 04:19 AM
Albion Wrote:If The Way was so quick to jump on YOU, than I say WHY NOT on James Trimm!? Not really jumping, it was a reasonable request. Before they even contacted me, I had that footnote in the Lexicon search page specifically naming them and thanking them for the data. What they requested, which is perfectly reasonable, is that I include a copyright statement on the page. It is their work, after all. I also mentioned Dr. Kiraz and his compilation of the SEDRA relational database. So the mention of thanks was already there, I wouldn't call it jumping on me to request a copyright statement. They could have done so in a little gentler way, though (in case you're reading this, The Way!) instead of sending a letter via an attorney they could have just emailed me. <!-- s  --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/sad.gif" alt="" title="Sad" /><!-- s --> When I got the letter, I just took the whole Lexicon down, which made their attorney call me right away and said they felt bad about that and didn't mean to have it taken down. I said "yeah right, copyright infringement is serious money" and he laughed. Not that I'm selling anything here. =)
01-26-2008, 06:37 PM
Shlama all--
Mari/PEACE has just moved into one of its last phases. I have just corrected and edited the very last portions of the Appendices. These extra sections were either longer footnotes of mine that my editorial team put into essay form or else were topics they thought needed extra attention and added on their own, for my review and approval later. There are approximately 350 pages of these notes in all, comprising of about 200 pages in front of the translation and the remaining 150 in the back. The front pieces deal with general scholarship and Aramaic in an overall sense, whereas those topics in the back from a kind of Netzari Concordance of relevant faith headings. A new Preface has also just been written by me, and my footnotes to the translation are still happening. I think we have about 1350 footnotes now, and the vast majority of them are far more detailed than just citing a passage of Scripture in parallel. So, for those of you who have been asking me, here is what is next. Once my final edits for the Appendices are processed by my team, I will then be sent the Master Copy of the whole megillot. This will be it folks. Once the last edits on the Master are done by me and my team, the text is finally locked, and it is off to the bindery. Final release is still on track for Pesach as far as I know, barring any printing delays that I cannot foresee now. Mari/PEACE is coming my friends. Every day it draws closer to being a physical reality. Shlama w'burkate Andrew Gabriel Roth
01-27-2008, 12:24 AM
Shlama Rafa,
Respectfully, I differ on this. Trimm's (so-called) H.R.V. is so tainted "with the Dark Side" (as they say in the Star Wars movies), that even a passing mention of Trimm, or his folly, would sully and darken Akhan Andrew's New Covenant Peshitta, 'MARI'! Give Trimm what he deserves; NOTHING. Peace, Albion Rafa Wrote:Akhi Andrew, your an accomplished author. Why don't you place a "note" on what you think about Trimm in your next work? Ask Shali to do the same when she finishes her own book. This way people can form their own minds before buying that HRV from Trimm (which I'm not touching).
01-27-2008, 03:03 AM
Shlama to both of you, Brothers Albion and Rafa,
I see both your viewpoints as valid. In a way, Mari/PEACE stands as silent testimony against HRV. It shows, in graphic detail, why the Aramaic NT tradtions are way more important than the late medieval Hebrew Matthews and such. Bottom line is for at least the 22, and very likely for a lot more, the Aramaic Peshitta remains a potent and continous vessel of original Semitic thought regarding Messiah Y'shua, and this undercuts Hebrew NT primacy and Trimm with it. I don't need to thrash the man more than my general work has already done. I really don't like giving him so much credit. On the other hand, Mari/PEACE, like the Ruach Qadim books, already has a fair amount of material that dicredits Trimm directly. In one case, the Old Syriac section that is in both works, squarely takes apart Trimm's theories. A similar process happens in Revelation's foonotes. I suppose then that I feel what I currently have is probably sufficient. I neither totally ignore him nor exaggerate him to importance. I have enjoyed though identifying his textual ideas in my previous books as "Ex-Nihilo Theory" and "Scratch and Lose". Beyond this, I am not sure if more is needed, but it may be that being at the end of my process for Mari/PEACE has more to do with my not changing it than thinking this is such a bad idea. It's just not necessarily an idea that makes me want to reinvent the wheel, so to speak. Still, as I said, the idea has merit. Shlama w'burkate Andrew Gabriel Roth |
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