"But when I look at those two words, I find them written totally identical in their hebrew letters"
When those words' identical-looking characters-- BTW, Aramaic-script characters-- are pronounced as an Aramaic word and as a Hebrew word, are those 2 words pronounced the same?
And does the Aramaic word and the Hebrew word mean the same thing?
"the whole hebrew-aramaic discussion is nothing but hair splitting"
Do you believe that Hebrew and Aramaic are dialects?
Suppose someone is proficient at reading biblical Hebrew.
Do you believe that person is consequently proficient at reading biblical Aramaic?
_Basics of Biblical Aramaic: Complete Grammar, Lexicon, and Annotated Text_ (2023)
https://www.amazon.com/Basics-Biblical-A...310141125/
Most of the Bible's verses that occur in Aramaic are in Ezra and Daniel, a linguistic occurrence that developed as a result of Israel's exile in Babylon. Totaling 269 verses, Aramaic is [a] key language students of the Old Testament will need to master.
_Basics of Biblical Aramaic, Second Edition_ by Miles V. Van Pelt is designed for students who are already familiar with biblical Hebrew and now want to obtain a working knowledge of biblical Aramaic in a single semester.
"the manuscripts hardly distinguish the supposed languages"
Including here?:
Daniel 2:4 (King James)
https://biblehub.com/daniel/2-4.htm
Then spake the Chaldeans to the king in Syriack,
O king, live for ever: tell thy servants the dream, and we will shew the interpretation.
Genesis 31:47
https://biblehub.com/genesis/31-47.htm
(NIV)
Laban called it Jegar Sahadutha,
and Jacob called it Galeed.
(New Living)
To commemorate the event,
Laban called the place
Jegar-sahadutha (which means “witness pile” in Aramaic),
and Jacob called it
Galeed (which means “witness pile” in Hebrew).
Ezra 4:7
https://biblehub.com/ezra/4-7.htm
(NIV)
And in the days of Artaxerxes king of Persia, Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel and the rest of his associates wrote a letter to Artaxerxes.
The letter was written in Aramaic script and in the Aramaic language.
(Berean Standard)
And in the days of Artaxerxes king of Persia, Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel, and the rest of his associates wrote a letter to Artaxerxes.
It was written in Aramaic and then translated.
(King James)
And in the days of Artaxerxes wrote Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel, and the rest of their companions, unto Artaxerxes king of Persia;
and the writing of the letter was written in the Syrian tongue, and interpreted in the Syrian tongue.
2 Kings 18:26
https://biblehub.com/2_kings/18-26.htm
(NIV)
Then Eliakim son of Hilkiah, and Shebna and Joah said to the field commander,
“Please speak to your servants in Aramaic, since we understand it.
Don’t speak to us in Hebrew in the hearing of the people on the wall.”
(King James)
Then said Eliakim the son of Hilkiah, and Shebna, and Joah, unto Rabshakeh,
Speak, I pray thee, to thy servants in the Syrian language; for we understand it:
and talk not with us in the Jews' language in the ears of the people that are on the wall.
Isaiah 36:11
https://biblehub.com/isaiah/36-11.htm
(NIV)
Then Eliakim, Shebna and Joah said to the field commander,
“Please speak to your servants in Aramaic, since we understand it.
Don’t speak to us in Hebrew in the hearing of the people on the wall.”
(King James)
Then said Eliakim and Shebna and Joah unto Rabshakeh,
Speak, I pray thee, unto thy servants in the Syrian language; for we understand it:
and speak not to us in the Jews' language, in the ears of the people that are on the wall.
======================
2 items from
https://x.com/i/grok/share/IdYe1U1vEUTgNLMkTQlLXCaJv
Hebrew and Aramaic are considered two separate languages, not mere dialects of each other, though they are closely related as sister languages within the Northwest Semitic branch of the Afro-Asiatic language family. They share significant similarities in vocabulary, grammar, phonology, and script due to their common ancestry and historical interactions, which can lead to partial mutual intelligibility (especially in archaic forms or written texts), but they diverged enough over time to be classified distinctly.
### Key Reasons They Are Separate Languages
- **Linguistic Classification**: Hebrew belongs to the Canaanite subgroup (alongside Phoenician and Moabite), while Aramaic forms its own branch. This separation occurred around the second millennium BCE, with Aramaic originating among Aramean peoples in Syria and Mesopotamia, and Hebrew among the Israelites in Canaan.
- **Mutual Intelligibility**: While speakers of one might understand basic elements of the other (similar to how Spanish and Portuguese speakers can partially comprehend each other), full communication often requires learning the differences. They are not dialects, as dialects imply varieties within the same language with high mutual intelligibility (e.g., American vs. British English).
- **Historical and Cultural Roles**: Hebrew was the primary language of the ancient Israelites and the Hebrew Bible, evolving into a liturgical language by the Common Era. Aramaic became a lingua franca across the Near East due to empires like the Assyrians, Babylonians, and Persians, influencing Jewish communities during the Babylonian Exile (6th century BCE). Parts of the Bible (e.g., in Daniel and Ezra) are written in Aramaic, showing overlap but not identity.
### Counter Views
Some sources, particularly in religious or traditional Jewish contexts, may describe them as variants of a single "holy language" or emphasize their unity due to shared scripts and cultural ties. However, modern linguistics overwhelmingly treats them as distinct languages. Confusing references (e.g., to "Hebrew" in the New Testament actually meaning a form of Aramaic) highlight dialectal variations within Aramaic but do not merge the two languages.
===
2
Introduction The Old Testament (also known as the Hebrew Bible) is predominantly written in Biblical Hebrew, but it includes several passages composed in Biblical Aramaic, a form of the Aramaic language used during the Persian and Hellenistic periods. These Aramaic sections reflect the historical context of the Babylonian Exile and Persian Empire, when Aramaic served as a lingua franca in the Near East. The primary Aramaic portions are found in the books of Daniel and Ezra, with additional isolated instances in Jeremiah and Genesis. Scholars identify these based on linguistic analysis, as the original manuscripts do not always distinguish the languages explicitly.
### Main Aramaic Passages
The following table summarizes the key sections written in Aramaic, accounting for approximately 268 verses in total. These are the core instances where the text shifts from Hebrew to Aramaic. | Book | Passage | Description/Context | |-----------|--------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Daniel | 2:4b–7:28 | This extended section begins mid-verse in chapter 2 (from "Then the Chaldeans spoke to the king in Aramaic") and covers visions, dreams, and prophecies. It represents the largest Aramaic portion in the Old Testament. | | Ezra | 4:8–6:18 | Correspondence and official documents related to the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Temple, including letters to and from Persian kings. | | Ezra | 7:12–26 | A decree from King Artaxerxes authorizing Ezra's mission, presented as an official Aramaic document. | | Jeremiah | 10:11 | A single verse warning against idolatry, embedded in a Hebrew chapter: "Thus shall you say to them: 'The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens.'" | | Genesis | 31:47 | An Aramaic phrase used by Laban for a place name: "Jegar-sahadutha" (meaning "heap of witness"), contrasting with Jacob's Hebrew "Galeed." This is not a full passage but a brief insertion.
| ### Additional References to Aramaic
Beyond the passages written in Aramaic, the Old Testament includes verses that mention the language (often called "Aramaic" or "Syrian" in translations) without using it.
For example:
- 2 Kings 18:26 and Isaiah 36:11: Officials request that Assyrian envoys speak in Aramaic rather than Hebrew to avoid alarming the public.
- Ezra 4:7 and Daniel 2:4: Explicit notes about documents or speech being in Aramaic.
These Aramaic elements highlight the multilingual environment of ancient Israel and Judah.
Note that some translations (like the Peshitta) render the entire Old Testament in Aramaic, but the original canonical texts are as described above.
When those words' identical-looking characters-- BTW, Aramaic-script characters-- are pronounced as an Aramaic word and as a Hebrew word, are those 2 words pronounced the same?
And does the Aramaic word and the Hebrew word mean the same thing?
"the whole hebrew-aramaic discussion is nothing but hair splitting"
Do you believe that Hebrew and Aramaic are dialects?
Suppose someone is proficient at reading biblical Hebrew.
Do you believe that person is consequently proficient at reading biblical Aramaic?
_Basics of Biblical Aramaic: Complete Grammar, Lexicon, and Annotated Text_ (2023)
https://www.amazon.com/Basics-Biblical-A...310141125/
Most of the Bible's verses that occur in Aramaic are in Ezra and Daniel, a linguistic occurrence that developed as a result of Israel's exile in Babylon. Totaling 269 verses, Aramaic is [a] key language students of the Old Testament will need to master.
_Basics of Biblical Aramaic, Second Edition_ by Miles V. Van Pelt is designed for students who are already familiar with biblical Hebrew and now want to obtain a working knowledge of biblical Aramaic in a single semester.
"the manuscripts hardly distinguish the supposed languages"
Including here?:
Daniel 2:4 (King James)
https://biblehub.com/daniel/2-4.htm
Then spake the Chaldeans to the king in Syriack,
O king, live for ever: tell thy servants the dream, and we will shew the interpretation.
Genesis 31:47
https://biblehub.com/genesis/31-47.htm
(NIV)
Laban called it Jegar Sahadutha,
and Jacob called it Galeed.
(New Living)
To commemorate the event,
Laban called the place
Jegar-sahadutha (which means “witness pile” in Aramaic),
and Jacob called it
Galeed (which means “witness pile” in Hebrew).
Ezra 4:7
https://biblehub.com/ezra/4-7.htm
(NIV)
And in the days of Artaxerxes king of Persia, Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel and the rest of his associates wrote a letter to Artaxerxes.
The letter was written in Aramaic script and in the Aramaic language.
(Berean Standard)
And in the days of Artaxerxes king of Persia, Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel, and the rest of his associates wrote a letter to Artaxerxes.
It was written in Aramaic and then translated.
(King James)
And in the days of Artaxerxes wrote Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel, and the rest of their companions, unto Artaxerxes king of Persia;
and the writing of the letter was written in the Syrian tongue, and interpreted in the Syrian tongue.
2 Kings 18:26
https://biblehub.com/2_kings/18-26.htm
(NIV)
Then Eliakim son of Hilkiah, and Shebna and Joah said to the field commander,
“Please speak to your servants in Aramaic, since we understand it.
Don’t speak to us in Hebrew in the hearing of the people on the wall.”
(King James)
Then said Eliakim the son of Hilkiah, and Shebna, and Joah, unto Rabshakeh,
Speak, I pray thee, to thy servants in the Syrian language; for we understand it:
and talk not with us in the Jews' language in the ears of the people that are on the wall.
Isaiah 36:11
https://biblehub.com/isaiah/36-11.htm
(NIV)
Then Eliakim, Shebna and Joah said to the field commander,
“Please speak to your servants in Aramaic, since we understand it.
Don’t speak to us in Hebrew in the hearing of the people on the wall.”
(King James)
Then said Eliakim and Shebna and Joah unto Rabshakeh,
Speak, I pray thee, unto thy servants in the Syrian language; for we understand it:
and speak not to us in the Jews' language, in the ears of the people that are on the wall.
======================
2 items from
https://x.com/i/grok/share/IdYe1U1vEUTgNLMkTQlLXCaJv
Hebrew and Aramaic are considered two separate languages, not mere dialects of each other, though they are closely related as sister languages within the Northwest Semitic branch of the Afro-Asiatic language family. They share significant similarities in vocabulary, grammar, phonology, and script due to their common ancestry and historical interactions, which can lead to partial mutual intelligibility (especially in archaic forms or written texts), but they diverged enough over time to be classified distinctly.
### Key Reasons They Are Separate Languages
- **Linguistic Classification**: Hebrew belongs to the Canaanite subgroup (alongside Phoenician and Moabite), while Aramaic forms its own branch. This separation occurred around the second millennium BCE, with Aramaic originating among Aramean peoples in Syria and Mesopotamia, and Hebrew among the Israelites in Canaan.
- **Mutual Intelligibility**: While speakers of one might understand basic elements of the other (similar to how Spanish and Portuguese speakers can partially comprehend each other), full communication often requires learning the differences. They are not dialects, as dialects imply varieties within the same language with high mutual intelligibility (e.g., American vs. British English).
- **Historical and Cultural Roles**: Hebrew was the primary language of the ancient Israelites and the Hebrew Bible, evolving into a liturgical language by the Common Era. Aramaic became a lingua franca across the Near East due to empires like the Assyrians, Babylonians, and Persians, influencing Jewish communities during the Babylonian Exile (6th century BCE). Parts of the Bible (e.g., in Daniel and Ezra) are written in Aramaic, showing overlap but not identity.
### Counter Views
Some sources, particularly in religious or traditional Jewish contexts, may describe them as variants of a single "holy language" or emphasize their unity due to shared scripts and cultural ties. However, modern linguistics overwhelmingly treats them as distinct languages. Confusing references (e.g., to "Hebrew" in the New Testament actually meaning a form of Aramaic) highlight dialectal variations within Aramaic but do not merge the two languages.
===
2
Introduction The Old Testament (also known as the Hebrew Bible) is predominantly written in Biblical Hebrew, but it includes several passages composed in Biblical Aramaic, a form of the Aramaic language used during the Persian and Hellenistic periods. These Aramaic sections reflect the historical context of the Babylonian Exile and Persian Empire, when Aramaic served as a lingua franca in the Near East. The primary Aramaic portions are found in the books of Daniel and Ezra, with additional isolated instances in Jeremiah and Genesis. Scholars identify these based on linguistic analysis, as the original manuscripts do not always distinguish the languages explicitly.
### Main Aramaic Passages
The following table summarizes the key sections written in Aramaic, accounting for approximately 268 verses in total. These are the core instances where the text shifts from Hebrew to Aramaic. | Book | Passage | Description/Context | |-----------|--------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Daniel | 2:4b–7:28 | This extended section begins mid-verse in chapter 2 (from "Then the Chaldeans spoke to the king in Aramaic") and covers visions, dreams, and prophecies. It represents the largest Aramaic portion in the Old Testament. | | Ezra | 4:8–6:18 | Correspondence and official documents related to the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Temple, including letters to and from Persian kings. | | Ezra | 7:12–26 | A decree from King Artaxerxes authorizing Ezra's mission, presented as an official Aramaic document. | | Jeremiah | 10:11 | A single verse warning against idolatry, embedded in a Hebrew chapter: "Thus shall you say to them: 'The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens.'" | | Genesis | 31:47 | An Aramaic phrase used by Laban for a place name: "Jegar-sahadutha" (meaning "heap of witness"), contrasting with Jacob's Hebrew "Galeed." This is not a full passage but a brief insertion.
| ### Additional References to Aramaic
Beyond the passages written in Aramaic, the Old Testament includes verses that mention the language (often called "Aramaic" or "Syrian" in translations) without using it.
For example:
- 2 Kings 18:26 and Isaiah 36:11: Officials request that Assyrian envoys speak in Aramaic rather than Hebrew to avoid alarming the public.
- Ezra 4:7 and Daniel 2:4: Explicit notes about documents or speech being in Aramaic.
These Aramaic elements highlight the multilingual environment of ancient Israel and Judah.
Note that some translations (like the Peshitta) render the entire Old Testament in Aramaic, but the original canonical texts are as described above.