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+--- Thread: Who would name the child according to custom? (/showthread.php?tid=459)
Who would name the child according to custom? - Dave - 10-04-2003
Was looking at things between different texts. Peshitta has Mary naming Jesus,....is this correct? I thought Jewish custom was to have the father name the child?
A little enlightenment for me please.
PS also, why is the angel telling Joseph that He would name the child, but Mary does???????????????????????
- Paul Younan - 10-04-2003
Shlama Akhi Dave,
It is normal custom for the father to name the child, even today - but this case was a little special in that Yosef wasn't really the father.... <!-- s
--><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s --> (maybe that had something to do with it?)
- Dave - 10-04-2003
Hmmm ok. Let me be as literal as I see some here:
The Angel told Joseph he would name the child, not Mary name it.
Now you know where I'm going with this, right? Let's continue,..
How about another in the same chapter? The angel said " Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy betrothed.
Now most of the Greek manuscripts and the Peshitta both got that wrong, because Joseph wasn't gonna accept Mary as his wife since she had a child already from someone else, IE she wasn't pure. He even kept it to himself rather than expose her to others around, exibiting the righteousness that The Lord loves in people. The angel in this case stated it correct to him, she was his betrothed at that point, until/unless he accepted her as his wife.
Guess where I found that? You will hate me If i tell you.
Why I'm stating this? Because, I found mistakes within the Peshitta also. Does that mean I plan on throwing it out? Not at all, in fact it goes much farther to present the truths than other languages do.
Now you can say I'm splittin hairs or some other excuse here, but there is 2 mistakes within the same chapter. Right there in front of you, in the first book as a matter of fact.
EDIT: I had thought to erase this post as I didn't want to promote some from of anger on here. But the more i read it and how my spirit lit up, I decided to let the post stay.
Now, I would expect one of you to chime in here and start explaining some. For me, truth is my guide. I have started to look at Hebrew custom a bit, and it's unveiling some issues here.
- Dave - 10-05-2003
/bump
I didnt want this to be overlooked.
. - drmlanc - 10-06-2003
""How about another in the same chapter? The angel said " Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy betrothed.
Now most of the Greek manuscripts and the Peshitta both got that wrong, because Joseph wasn't gonna accept Mary as his wife since she had a child already from someone else, IE she wasn't pure""
That is bunk. The Peshitta has it right here:
"do have fear not to take Maryam as your wife" - Paul Younan
. - drmlanc - 10-06-2003
""The Angel told Joseph he would name the child, not Mary name it.""
Could you give me the ref please? I am having trouble finding it <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: -->
- Dave - 10-06-2003
wrong.
The "as" is not part of the Peshitta, according to the site here. And Betrothed was what she currectly was, when the angel was talking to him, they, hadn't married yet.
Also, look at who the Angel says will name the child.
. - drmlanc - 10-06-2003
It says she will name Him!
. - drmlanc - 10-06-2003
As for "as" belonging there or not, I cannot say as I don't know the grammar. But [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]<ttn0 [/font]can mean woman also, not just wife. And she definitely was his woman <!-- s
--><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="" title="Happy" /><!-- s -->
- Dave - 10-06-2003
wrong.
Murdock says "thou"
as in the angel is talking to Joseph and tells him that he will name the child, again according to Hebrew custom.
. - drmlanc - 10-06-2003
So Murdock is automatically correct? Is Murdock also correct by translating Jesus' words on the cross as "why have you forsaken me?"
Is that what you will do? Keep using different translations of the Peshitta to fit your beliefs and stir up trouble?
. - drmlanc - 10-06-2003
I just had a check. The word means "call" so it doesn't actually say if Mary will or Joseph will. However, it says this straight after "Mary will bear a son" so Paul Younan is very justified in translating it with the context as sort of "Mary will bear a son and name Him Yeshu'"
- Dave - 10-06-2003
murdock spent years and years on his translation, I think he did quite well, it is quoted on here, along with Lamsa.
In fact, Lamsa was more direct in his translation, He used the word "you" as the angel was talking to Joseph.
also, Betrothed is correct. She was not married at that moment.
I'm being very literal here, as much as I've seen in instances in posts. I'm sure you do appreciate the particulars I'm bringing to light for you. Things that need correcting.
. - drmlanc - 10-06-2003
I just had a check. The word means "call" so it doesn't actually say if Mary will or Joseph will. However, it says this straight after "Mary will bear a son" so Paul Younan is very justified in translating it with the context as sort of "Mary will bear a son and name Him Yeshu'"
Like I said, it doesn't actually say which one is to name Him, specifically.
. - drmlanc - 10-06-2003
Note too that Lamsa tried to keep his version in line with the KJV, big mistake <!-- s
--><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/sad.gif" alt="" title="Sad" /><!-- s -->