John 1:1 - Printable Version +- Peshitta Forum (http://peshitta.org/for) +-- Forum: New Testament (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=3) +--- Forum: General (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=7) +--- Thread: John 1:1 (/showthread.php?tid=3116) |
John 1:1 - HSB - 07-16-2013 I understand the Greek manuscripts are best translated "...the Word was God" yet I notice the Aramaic renders the verse as "God was the Word". Can someone who knows both Greek and Aramaic shed some light on this? I think the question is important..there is a big difference between me saying "God is light" (as John does in 1John 1:5) and me saying "Light is God". I suspect the Aramaic is a closer and more accurate rendition of what John intended. PS: In my interlinear Greek text it also says "...God was the Word" yet all the English translations I can locate reverse the order, I assume because the Greek grammar requires this. Re: John 1:1 - bknight - 07-24-2013 You are correct that it is common in greek syntax to reverse the subject-object order from what we are used to in modern english. So translating just one word at a time from greek to english you will think it was written by Yoda: "if thirsty anyone is, water let him drink" Not an expert in Aramaic so cannot answer your question more thoroughly. Re: John 1:1 - gregglaser - 07-25-2013 HSB Wrote:I understand the Greek manuscripts are best translated "...the Word was God" yet I notice the Aramaic renders the verse as "God was the Word". Can someone who knows both Greek and Aramaic shed some light on this? I think the question is important..there is a big difference between me saying "God is light" (as John does in 1John 1:5) and me saying "Light is God". I suspect the Aramaic is a closer and more accurate rendition of what John intended. Interesting question. As you probably already know, the answer is that the text says what it says. <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s --> First, there are two potential Aramaic verb phrases in John 1:1 to which you could be referring for your ?was? translation (?Alha was the Word? and/or ?the Word was Alha?):
So as we can see by the definitions above, these two phrases are more complex than ?is? or ?was?, especially given the context of John 1:1. Consider the perspective of the Aramaic and Greek scholar David Bauscher, who translates the first Aramaic phrase word-for-word as ?existing had been with? and the second phrase as ?Himself was that?. Here is his complete translation of John 1:1-2, ?In the Origin existing had been The Word and That Word existing had been with God and God Himself was That Word. This One existing was at the origin with God.? It?s a nice translation, flows well in English. Here is another literal way you could translate the Aramaic of John 1:1-2 into English, ?In the beginning was His existence, the Word. And He the Word had His existence toward Alha. And Alha was His existence, He the Word. This was His existence in the beginning toward Alha.? There are five occurrences of ayThuhy hua by the time we get to John 1:9 (and one plural reference of same in John 1:4), and the concepts that this phrase connects are very mighty and spiritual: Alha, light, darkness, Word, life. Fortunately this emphasizes a key point: the entire gospel provides the saga of real people in real life situations to help us understand the relative meaning of the Word to our perspectives. After reading your question, I searched every occurrence of ayTh in the gospel of John ? I looked for any other use of either of these two phrases above (ayThuhy hua luTh or ayThuhy hua hu) from John 1:1. I did not find a single other use of the full and exact phrase in either case. For example, we can find several instances of ayThuhy hua, but not ayThuhy hua luTh. In every instance of ayThuhy hua in the gospel of John, the phrase is describing a word (usually a noun) that comes after it (so it flows naturally and logically pointing forward in Aramaic; I found no word reversal required like you suggested for Greek), except where it can be read either way (frontwards or backwards) because the object is the same on both sides of the phrase. Let?s look at every example in John, and you?ll see the text flow forward naturally:
Based on the examples above, it appears that the operative phrases in John 1:1-2 (ayThuhy hua luTh or ayThuhy hua hu) can point forward or backward if the object is the same on both sides, but if the objects are different then the phrase points forward. Is that helpful for your question? I enjoyed this research. I think John 1 is meant to be especially mysterious and full of possibilities, in that manner like YHVH actually. Personally, I feel the Word is very complex in the sense of the fundamental descriptions above, such as Alha ?has His being toward? (ayThuhy hua luTh) the Word.
Presently I reason that YHVH is the Word (John 12:48-50) that spoke light into existence per Genesis 1. Yahshua is the light created by the Word and living in the Word -- that?s a key message of John 1:1-9, and passages like John 16:15. We are invited to be sons of YHVH by following the light toward the Word. The Word is the beginning and the end of our entire existence here ? mlTha is the full (ml) sign (Tha) of our existence. We are therefore characters in a living story, and we are completely and wholly dependent on YHVH for this ongoing gift of life/saga that is destined for fulfillment. Like sound (i.e., words), light works on wave principles. In Aramaic the words for ?revelation? and ?wave? are the same ? gla. If you?re in tune with Yahshua the light, then his story resonates in your heart and mind, like awesome song waves you love to hear, like beautiful color waves you love to see, like words you love to follow because you love light and not darkness. When we do not follow Yahshua, then we don?t really love him fully by keeping the Father?s word. John 14:24. But if you love Yahshua, he will lead you to YHVH because YHVH loves Yahshua, and as Yahshua?s follower you live in Yahshua the light, so YHVH loves you too. John 14:21. YHVH desires for His light and Word to dwell inside the ones He loves. John 14:20-23. But before we get to that point of happy new beginnings in a new age/world, our story needs to involve judgment of this age/world by the Word, which is YHVH. John 12:48-50. Re: John 1:1 - HSB - 07-25-2013 Gregglaser: thank you so much for this response. I have printed it out for further study. My own background involved M.Sc. work in Physics (many years ago), so I love the study of light and it's mysterious nature. May you possess a "laser" beam of insight and divine wisdom! Re: John 1:1 - gregglaser - 07-25-2013 Thank you for the kind words, very cool of you to send that positive energy my way. If i have revealed anything beneficial, i give credit above to YHVH. Glad to hear also of your formal studies in physics, and interest in the uniqueness of light! Do you read Feynman? This is one of my passions. Indeed, while researching your question yesterday, I discovered two awesome and complimentary wordplays in John 1:5, so with your segway this morning about light I?m glad for this opportunity to share what I found? The first wordplay comes from mnhr in John 1:5, ?And that light in the darkness brought light and the darkness not did overtake it.? This Aramaic word mnhr (?brought light?) has an alternate literal translation meaning ?from fight? (mn = from; hr = fight), as in the very battle of light and dark energies being described in John 1:5! So through division of this one word, we see a complimentary meaning in John 1:4-5, because the ?light of men? in John 1:4 was divided/separated just like light and dark were separated in the beginning. How was the light of men separated? Adam was one -- he was man, not a son of man (brnsa) like all men after him. After his second and third separations, Cain and Abel, his separations fought amongst one another. At first it appeared that darkness (the stumbling block, the shadow) triumphed when Cain murdered Abel, but then Seth was born, and eventually Yahshua was born from Seth?s line, and so ?the light of men? triumphed; John 1:5 is a true statement, ?And that light in the darkness brought light, and the darkness did not overtake it.? See also John 14:30, ?After this I will not speak with you many [things], for comes the ruler of this world and in me he does not have to him anything.? The second wordplay in John 1:5 comes from the word adrkh (?did overtake it?). This plays on two words: drkTha (?threshing?) and adra (?threshing floor?). It?s a metaphor, light separated from dark just like wheat is separated from chaff (by beating it with wood/cross on the threshing floor). Between light and dark, only one has the seed. Light has the seed; wheat has the seed. The darkness, the chaff, is just the cover. The light/seed must break through the darkness/chaff. So our earth is like the threshing floor for our saga, which is a metaphor explaining why our existence here must be filled with such tribulation. Apparently we have to get the seed beaten out of us? And indeed nature is full of these examples (even the classic: chicken and egg) where something living must break a shell to grow, and if it does not first break its shell, then (1) it will not have been protected during its infancy, and (2) it will not be strong enough to face reality outside the shell. Consider the extraordinary power of high frequency light ? for example, if we even gaze at the sun for 60 seconds straight, we can go blind. How much more if we look upon YHVH?s light before we have broken our shell and left this existence (which has been designed to make us stronger). With regard to the physics of dark energy, here is an article chronicling some of the latest particle accelerator research being released to the public: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.nature.com/news/physicists-hunt-for-dark-forces-1.10386">http://www.nature.com/news/physicists-h ... es-1.10386</a><!-- m --> As you know given your physics background, light is the electromagnetic radiation of ANY wavelength, even though we laymen tend to define the word in terms of the light we see with our eyes (the visible spectrum). But in the gospel Yahshua is the physicist, constantly emphasizing the importance of the powers that man can not see. See e.g., John 1:18, John 3:8, John 18:36, and especially John 16:12, ?Again, I have much to say to you, but you are not able to hold now.? In that last verse the world is aKhd, meaning ?hold? or ?seize?, which I think suggests that in these human vessels we cannot contain or control other waves, to be revealed later. I reason that darkness does not comprehend light because it is a stumbling block, a cluster of obstacles that block the transmission of light. So the wordplay of John 1:5 above fits well: conflict/fighting tends to disrupt/block harmonic wave signals. Remember when Pilate asked, ?what is truth??, and then he just walked away from Yahshua in the house of bondage. John 18:38. I reason our goal is to walk toward Yahshua wherever he leads us, even if it looks like we?re walking into a house of bondage. YHVH is the farmer and he can easily beat the chaff right off a seed when its season arrives. Here's another wordplay I found while researching your question: recall the Aramaic word bsra (?flesh?), John 3:6 for example. Living in this flesh (bsra) that covers us is like living ?in moon? (bshra). The moon/flesh does not produce its own light, but only reflects the light of the greater body, the sun that helps life grow here on earth. And it?s useful for us humans to learn the meaning of our stellar cycles and flesh -- the sun and moon and flesh all work together to reveal the Word to our earthly perspectives. I?m comforted by the book of Revelation in this regard, as the scripture explains the fate of our present sun and moon and flesh after they have lost their purpose. I reason the new purpose is very spiritual - glyna nuhra dsra bEalm. Re: John 1:1 - gregglaser - 07-28-2013 gregglaser Wrote:... light is the electromagnetic radiation of ANY wavelength, even though we laymen tend to define the word in terms of the light we see with our eyes (the visible spectrum). But in the gospel Yahshua is the physicist, constantly emphasizing the importance of the powers that man can not see. See e.g., John 1:18, John 3:8, John 18:36, and especially John 16:12, ?Again, I have much to say to you, but you are not able to hold now.? In that last verse the world is aKhd, meaning ?hold? or ?seize?, which I think suggests that in these human vessels we cannot contain or control other waves, to be revealed later. See also the interesting reference in John 16:25 to Eayn bgla ("eyes in waves"), as Yahshua describes how he will speak of the Father in the future, rather than in comparisons/parables (plata). Here is the standard translation though of John 16:25, "These I have spoken with you with comparisons. But the hour comes when I will not speak to you with comparisons, but I will openly (Eayn bgla) make known to you about the Father." To the extent the Father and Yahshua can be understood in some way by studying the physics of light, examples are fun to ponder! Consider how white light stimulates all three cone cell types in the human eye, which is why our eyes see the color white as all the wavelengths of the visible spectrum. In the bible, it appears that one of the primary meanings of wearing white clothes is acceptance into the kingdom of heaven. See e.g., Revelation 7:14, Matthew 17:2. With that in mind, remember Matthew 19:12 -- after children come to Yahshua and he approves in reference to the kingdom of heaven, in the next passage (at Matthew 19:16) a man comes to Yahshua and asks what he must do to enter the kingdom of heaven, and Yahshua advises him to keep the commandments, and further that if he wants to be mature and to follow Yahshua and to have treasure in heaven then he should sell all his possessions and give them to the poor. While the disciples are worrying about these words, Yahshua adds to them in Matthew 19:24, ?And again I say to you, it is easier for a rope to enter the eye (Khrura) of a needle than a rich man to enter into the kingdom of Alha.? Regarding white (Khur) light, note the wordplay here in Matthew 19:24 ?the eye? (Khrura) followed by Matthew 19:26 ?looked? (Khr). I think the meaning here is that if disciples seek freedom, they?re going to need some white clothes. They must whiten themselves to enter the kingdom of heaven. Scientifically ?white? is a light wave perceived by optical nerves (or measurable in a laboratory as the full visible spectrum within the electromagnetic spectrum), but just imagine how rich Khur would be if it wasn?t bound by human optical nerves? Perhaps that is part of the larger lesson here ? there is more to life than the visible spectrum. There is more to being born from the beginning than just another earthly experience; more to spirit than just the feeling of wind on our faces. In John 8:31-32 (truth will set you free), the phrase ?set you free? (nKhrrkun) comes from this root word meaning ?freedom? or ?the eye? (Khrura). And the rope (gmla) from Matthew 19 above is a collection of twisted fibers (gla), an aramaic word that is also translated as ?wave?, ?straw?, or ?revelation? (see e.g., Matthew 7:4). It's also the beginning of my last name (so I like to research it). <!-- sigh: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/sigh.gif" alt="igh:" title="Sigh" /><!-- sigh: --> |