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+--- Thread: Phillipians 4:19 (/showthread.php?tid=2950)
Phillipians 4:19 - Thirdwoe - 11-19-2012
:
How are we to pronounce and or translate the instance of the Aramaic word for "God" in this verse in English... should it be spelled Alahay? This particular form appears also in John 20:17 and John 20:28...which seems to be a more personal way to address Alaha, as "my God" rather than "our God" or "the God" or just "God" in general. Also it is found in Mark 15:34 and 2nd Corinthians 12:21, again in more personal applications.
The reason I ask, is this form appears where M'Shikha refers to His Father as my "Alahay" in John 20:17 and Thomas calls M'Shikha my "Alahay" in John 20:28.
Shlama,
Chuck
Re: Phillipians 4:19 - Paul Younan - 11-19-2012
Shlama Akhi Chuck,
The answer to this dives a bit into dialectology. In our dialect, vocalization of the singular possessive suffix Yodh ("i, ee, y", it's written many ways in Latin chars) is silent when there are other vowels in the word. For instance, while I write "Akhi" to say "my brother", it is vocalized as "Akh" (the final Yodh being silent.)
In Phillipians 4:19, "my God" (A-L-H-Y) is pronounced with a silent Yodh ("Alah"). The final Yodh is not vocalized.
+Shamasha
Re: Phillipians 4:19 - Thirdwoe - 11-19-2012
:
Thanks Shamasha, So, that's about the same as saying "Allah" then, in spelling, and sounds like it's pronounced the same way too?
I've just listend to the Arabic version online of John 20:28 where it reads "my Master and my God" in the English version, and the Arabic reader pronounced it like this... "Rah-be w'-A-lay-he" rather than like "Rah-be w'Al-lah".
Would it be "Mari w'Alah" (my Master and my Alah), in the Aramaic? "Alah" sounding like Al-ah?
Shlama,
Chuck
Re: Phillipians 4:19 - Paul Younan - 11-19-2012
Thirdwoe Wrote::
Thanks Shamasha, So, that's about the same as saying "Allah" then, in spelling, and sounds like it's pronounced the same way too?
I've just listend to the Arabic version online of John 20:28 where it reads "my Master and my God" in the English version, and the Arabic reader pronounced it like this... "Rah-be w'-A-lay-he" rather than like "Rah-be w'Al-lah".
Would it be "Mari w'Alah" (my Master and my Alah), in the Aramaic? "Alah" sounding like Al-ah?
Shlama,
Chuck
Shlama Akh(I) Chuck,
"Mari" would actually be vocalized as "Mar" for the same reason, making the final Yodh silent. "Mar w'Alah" would be the vocalization.
Arabic and Hebrew are different in vocalization. Neither suppresses the vocalization of the possessive suffix.
It's an Aramaic-only thing, and not in all dialects. Interestingly enough, modern Neo-Aramaic (like the Assyrian dialect I speak) vocalizes the final Yodh. So in Assyrian Neo-Aramaic it is "Mari w'Alahi". However, when we read the classical tongue, we go by its rules.
Note that all three languages use "aleph-lamedh-heh" as the root for generic "god" with a little g. In Christian Arabic, before Mohammad was even born, they referred to God in the same way as Hebrew and Aramaic. It's only after the advent of Islam did this generic word suddenly become the personal name of their deity in that religion.
+Shamasha
Re: Phillipians 4:19 - ScorpioSniper2 - 11-19-2012
Hmmm. I always thought it was "Mari w'Alahi". Thanks for the information, Brother Paul!
Re: Phillipians 4:19 - Paul Younan - 11-19-2012
ScorpioSniper2 Wrote:Hmmm. I always thought it was "Mari w'Alahi". Thanks for the information, Brother Paul!
Listen to 1:07 - 1:12 for the suppression of the possessive Yodh in the Classical tongue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsMxHFjlayY
"Truly, truly I say to you: whosoever should eat My flesh "pagr(i)" and drink My blood "dem(i)", dwells in Me, and I in him."
+Shamasha
Re: Phillipians 4:19 - Paul Younan - 11-19-2012
Also here at 0:59 ... "barekh Mar(i)" ("Bless, O my Lord")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgHSb0U1NxU&feature=plcp
+Shamasha
Re: Phillipians 4:19 - Luc Lefebvre - 11-20-2012
A good way to remember that it's silent (at least for me) is that there is no hireq vowel under the last consonant prior to the yod (that is, if you are reading ktav ashuri script). In Hebrew a hireq always accompanies the preceding consonant and the yod becomes a vowel (plene form of the hireq).