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+--- Thread: Agape vs. Phileo (/showthread.php?tid=283)
Agape vs. Phileo - Paul Younan - 09-10-2003
Shlama Akhay,
Much hoopla has been created by the Greek Primacist arguments regarding Yukhanan John 21:15-17, and how Meshikha is supposed to have played with the meanings of the Greek words for love - "Agape" and "Phileo".
The plain truth is that "Agape" and "Phileo" are merely synonyms! The reading of the Greek versions of Yukhanan 3:35 and 5:20 (same author\translator) makes this very clear!
- John 3:35 - the Father loves (Agapao) the Son
John 5:20 - the Father loves (Phileo) the Son
Furthermore, we are told by the Greek primacists that "Phileo" supposedly means a more "friendly" type of "love", whereas "Agape" is more a "Godly" type of "love."
But how can "Phileo" simply be a "friend-ly" type of love when you consider the following verses in the GNT: ?
- Matt.10:37 He that loveth father or mother
John 12:25 He that loveth his life
Matt.23:6 love the uppermost rooms
John 5:20 the Father loveth the Son
John 16:27 the Father Himself loveth you
John 20:2 the other disciple, whom Jesus loved
Titus 2:4 women to be sober, to love their husbands
Conversely, how can "Agapao" be a "God-ly type of love" in light of the following verses in the GNT: ?
- John 12:43 for they loved the praise of men more than the praise from God
John 3:19 but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
2 Pet 2:15 who loved the wages of wickedness.
2 Tim 4:10 Demas, because he loved this world, has deserted me...
Consider these two verses from the same Gospel of Yukhanan:
- Concerning John the beloved disciple:
John 21:20 Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved (agapeo)...
John 20:2 She came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved (phileo)...
And these from Luke:
- Luke 11:43 "...love (agapeo) the most important seats in the synagogues and greetings in the market-places."
Luke 20:46 "...love (phileo) to be greeted in the market-places and have the most important seats in the synagogues."
How can these two words be anything but synonyms? This Greek Primacist argument is simply devoid of any merit!
- Brian Robinson - 09-10-2003
I believe there is an archived post by you or another member that in addition to this logic, there is also the reasoning that since Jesus spoke Aramaic and since there are no varied meanings for the word "love", in the Aramaic, then as you stated the point is mute and useless. Or am I confused.
Brian
- Paul Younan - 09-10-2003
Brian Robinson Wrote:I believe there is an archived post by you or another member that in addition to this logic, there is also the reasoning that since Jesus spoke Aramaic and since there are no varied meanings for the word "love", in the Aramaic, then as you stated the point is mute and useless. Or am I confused.
Brian
Hi Akhi Brian,
You are indeed correct - I wrote about this on the old forum, but I think it would be a good thing to find the "gems" over there and move them over to this new forum. <!-- s
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- Brian Robinson - 09-10-2003
If it is of assistance, the following are two different threads that concern this topic. Additionally, they also contain the issue of the the use of 3 different terms for sheep which would not be the case in the Greek. Perhaps it would be best if someone gleaned the highlights and reconstructed, as I am not practiced.
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Brian
. - drmlanc - 09-10-2003
Thanks for that Akhay. So many people believe that bunk! Many use it as part of their "Love is teh new law" doctrine.
Regards,
Chris