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Signs on manuscripts (dots, letters, stars...) - Printable Version

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Signs on manuscripts (dots, letters, stars...) - EEChO - 04-19-2009

Hello to all,

Has anyone made a work over the signs we can find in the syriac manuscripts. For example we find very often one dot or sometime two (they look like the infinity symbol in that case). At first sight it looks like decorative symbols, like drawn pearls, but it seems there is a meaning behind it.

Some believe it's some reading markings for the weeks, like a lectionnary, and in this case, some letters are added by the copist in order to indicate the date of the reading. But why can we find sometime one dot, sometime two ?

Do you know if there is some studies over this subject ?

For instance, does someone has compared those marks and tried to see if they are more present in old manuscripts or less present ; and if they are put at the same place ?

I've learned recently about the Eusebian Tables (or canons) that we can find in occidental manuscripts. He made this to compare the 4 gospels, and I know that this had a great success, so later on even some syriac manuscripts adopted these tables. But, for example, the stars or double stars we can find in the Tetraeuangelium Sanctum: Juxta Simplicem Syrorum Versionem Ad Fidem Codicum, Massorae, Editionum Pusey (or Clarendon edition) does not fit at all with the eusebian tables.

For information on the Eusebian canons : <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusebian_Canons">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusebian_Canons</a><!-- m -->
or : <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/eusebius_letter_to_carpianus.htm">http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/euseb ... pianus.htm</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/eusebius_canon_tables_01.htm">http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/euseb ... les_01.htm</a><!-- m -->

Thanks for your help !

Samuel L. writing from France
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.eecho.fr">http://www.eecho.fr</a><!-- m -->


Re: Signs on manuscripts (dots, letters, stars...) - abudar2000 - 04-20-2009

Shlomo Samuel,

Please provide samples of these symbols, by showing them in a page and with readable Syriac sentences; that way we can take a look at them and possibly provide some insight.

push bashlomo,
keefa-morun


Re: Signs on manuscripts (dots, letters, stars...) - EEChO - 04-21-2009

abudar2000 Wrote:Shlomo Samuel,

Please provide samples of these symbols, by showing them in a page and with readable Syriac sentences; that way we can take a look at them and possibly provide some insight.

push bashlomo,
keefa-morun

Thanks for you question.

For instance, let's take the Kabhouris codex. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com/khabouris/">http://www.dukhrana.com/khabouris/</a><!-- m -->
In Matthew page 24 : Matthiew 11,7 or Mathew 11,11
In front of the first verse there is an infinity sign with two red dots ; in front of the second verse there is twice this symbol and something written on the right in the margin.
That is what I am talking about.
In the transcription, they have been written by ~ in red.
If you open the Clarendon edition of the Peshitta you can see that they are also written.

Is there a study over these signs ?

They can not be only decorative symbol separating the text units.

Thanks.
Samuel L.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.eecho.fr">http://www.eecho.fr</a><!-- m -->


Re: Signs on manuscripts (dots, letters, stars...) - enarxe - 04-22-2009

Hello Samuel,

Have a look at <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1477">viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1477</a><!-- l --> , it does not answer your question but maybe adds something?

Shlama,
Jerzy


Re: Signs on manuscripts (dots, letters, stars...) - abudar2000 - 04-22-2009

shlomo Samuel,

EEChO Wrote:For instance, let's take the Kabhouris codex. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com/khabouris/">http://www.dukhrana.com/khabouris/</a><!-- m -->
In Matthew page 24 : Matthiew 11,7 or Mathew 11,11
In front of the first verse there is an infinity sign with two red dots ; in front of the second verse there is twice this symbol and something written on the right in the margin.
That is what I am talking about.
In the transcription, they have been written by ~ in red.
If you open the Clarendon edition of the Peshitta you can see that they are also written.

Is there a study over these signs ?

They can not be only decorative symbol separating the text units.

Here's a quick breakdown of the structure of what we call a "shoho" (Lesson):
?????? <= End of Book
.??.??. <= End of Lesson
.??.??.??. <= Beginning of Lesson 8
???? <= End of Subsection / End of a Paragraph like
?? <= End of Paragraph / End of a Sentence like
. <= End of Sentence / Line pause

.??.??. <= Notice that the ?? has its four dots; if you attach the dots on the left and the dot on the right together and hallow them out, then you get the infinity sign; now if you place the dot above and the dot below to the right and the left, but since you have adjoining dots on the left and the right, then you just use one dot to save on space you get the symbol in the manuscript.
.??.??.??. <= Here because they couldn't adjoin the dots to each other, because of the number 8 ??, we see the full set of dots.
In this example .??.??. the ?? has the two dots above and below, and that is because the Syriac Unicode doesn't have those symbols included (as we move more and more into print, unfortunately we will start seeing the disappearance of these types of art which are a trait of the Syriac language.)

There are other variation of the above signs that have the same meaning, and usually the above dot and below dot are in red.

Here's a listing that might prove interesting in relation to what some of the marks mean:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0700.pdf">http://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0700.pdf</a><!-- m -->

I hope this helps!

push bashlomo,
keefa-morun


Re: Signs on manuscripts (dots, letters, stars...) - EEChO - 04-29-2009

Hi !

Your answer is very interesting.
Those symbols would be there to help into the rhythm of the text, if I can say.

I was wandering where you found these informations ? Is it your own deductions or do you know where I could find a book over these symbols.

I could be very interesting knowing if the different manuscripts of the Peshitta possess the same symbols at the same places, and if not, why.

Samuel L.
EEChO
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.eecho.fr">http://www.eecho.fr</a><!-- m --> (I've made a short translation of the web site presentation in English).


Re: Signs on manuscripts (dots, letters, stars...) - abudar2000 - 05-06-2009

shlomo Samuel,

EEChO Wrote:I was wandering where you found these informations ? Is it your own deductions or do you know where I could find a book over these symbols.

The information is spread out over many books that I've read over the years; and also, from the Syriac texts that I've been exposed to over time.

EEChO Wrote:I could be very interesting knowing if the different manuscripts of the Peshitta possess the same symbols at the same places, and if not, why.

Some of these symbols will differ from group to group and sometimes within the same group. My group, the Syriac Maronites changed some of our lessons over time, so earlier manuscripts will show a lesson starting and ending at one point, while the same lesson in a later time might start and end at a different point.

They're just there to give the text a more orderly organisation.

The marks relating to end of lesson, subsection, and paragraph are less important than grammatical and vowel marks. Most books you'll read will concentrate way more on grammatical and vowel marks than on punctuation marks.

push bashlomo,
keefa-morun