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1 Peter 4:1 dead or suffering ? - Printable Version

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1 Peter 4:1 dead or suffering ? - enarxe - 10-02-2008

Shalom,

I originally wanted to post it in the Mistranslations section but it seems like whenever I try to approach it I'm too tired to dig deep and check everything so I thought that will check some grammar with others here.

Here we go:

1Peter 4:1 If then the Messiah hath suffered for you in the flesh, do ye also arm yourselves with the same mind: for every one that is dead in his body, hath ceased from all sins, [Murdock]

1Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; [KJV, and all other Greek-text based English translations]

Can you see the difference ?

The Greek word for "suffer" for the phrase in bold above is "pathon", which is II Aoristus Active Participium of "pascho" - suffer, endure. Vulgata has it as "qui passus est carne", i.e. "whose body has passed (or endured)" (my own poor translation), passus here is from "patior" (from which also English "patience" comes, I believe).

Aramaic has there "dmoet", a form of "mwt" which is "dead" or "dying". Here is my little grammar question now - how are you reading Aramaic here - is it "dead" or rather "dying"?

Note that Peshitta is simpler (!) and makes much more sense in the wider context - yes, "if you are dead you do not sin".

Thanks in advance for any help,
Jerzy
[edited one sentence to clarify what I am looking for]


Re: 1 Peter 4:1 dead or suffering ? - Paul Younan - 10-02-2008

Wow - thank you Jerzy for an example that both utilizes the Aramaic to clarify the meaning, and also gives us additional insight into Shimon Keepa's instruction to us here.

+Shamasha


Re: 1 Peter 4:1 dead or suffering ? - abudar2000 - 10-02-2008

shlom lokh oH Jerzy,

enarxe Wrote:Aramaic has there "dmoet", a form of "mwt" which is "dead" or "dying". Here is my little grammar question now - how are you reading Aramaic here - is it "dead" or rather "dying"?

Note that Peshitta is simpler (!) and makes much more sense in the wider context - yes, "if you are dead you do not sin".
[edited one sentence to clarify what I am looking for]

I would render it as "dies"

Translation => "... for every one who dies in the flesh, hath ceased from all sins."

push bashlomo,
keefa-morun


Re: 1 Peter 4:1 dead or suffering ? - sean - 10-07-2008

Did not Paul say "I die daily". Also in peter it saids 'he that suffers ( is that the correct translation?) in the flesh , has ceased from sin".


Re: 1 Peter 4:1 dead or suffering ? - sean - 10-07-2008

Sorry, "he that dies in the flesh", I'm at the library and running out of time, my computer at home is not working at the moment.


Re: 1 Peter 4:1 dead or suffering ? - ograabe - 10-07-2008

Lamsa translation:

1 Peter 4: 1-2

"Forasmuch then as Christ has suffered for you in the flesh, arm yourselves also with this very thought; he who subdues his body ceases from all sin; that he should no longer live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men but to the will of God."

Blessings,

Otto