Revelation, written on Patmos after Nero? - Printable Version +- Peshitta Forum (http://peshitta.org/for) +-- Forum: New Testament (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=3) +--- Forum: General (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=7) +--- Thread: Revelation, written on Patmos after Nero? (/showthread.php?tid=1599) |
Revelation, written on Patmos after Nero? - distazo - 05-02-2008 Hi All, I wonder, if John wrote the number 666 in code, as brother Bauscher explains, write nero in Hebrew letters, and the numbers make 666, why would John do that if he lived during a very calm emperor since Nero was dead for long (and the 'native' Romans hated Nero as well) THanks for any thoughts! Re: Revelation, written on Patmos after Nero? - Christina - 05-02-2008 This depends very much on the eschatological view one holds (preterist, futurist, historist or idealist). Although 666 can be associated with many people, I don't believe that John had Nero in mind. I don't think that 666 is referring to an individual but rather a system or a diety, an excellent book which explores this possibility is "Prophecy Code" by Jeffrey A. Manty. Note the verse says "the number of his name" I think that "number" in this verse is symbolic, as an individual has a name not a number. I believe that more likely it refers to the "movement" the beast belongs to or the diety he worships, or a characteristic of some sort, rather than his personal name, as too many personal names equal 666. This 666 reading is one of the proofs that Revelation was originally written in Aramaic with square "Hebrew" (Asshuri) script, as gemamtria doesn't actually work properly in the Greek language. (There is also speculation whether 666 is the correct number, as there are Greek mss that have 616, and others that have 656, so it is doubtful that we can make any deffinate conclusions with the sources we presently have. Perhaps we'll make new discoveries in the near future, who knows?) However this is just my opinion, and I haven't explored this issue indepth yet, while I accept the possibility that Revelation could've been written during Nero's reign (there are equally convincing arguments for a later date), it does not necessarily mean that John was writing about events that would happen in his day. In my opinion John simply recorded what he saw, nothing more, nothing less, and nothing else. Re: Revelation, written on Patmos after Nero? - gbausc - 05-02-2008 Shlama all, I give you the following from my introduction to The Apocalypse -"Gilyana" , written by Isaac Newton- yes , The Isaac Newton, the guy that invented Calculus and formulated the laws of Physics, gravity, light, etc., etc.: The Revelation which came to John The Evangelist from God in Patmos the island to which he was exiled by Nero Caesar Introduction The Date of Authorship Sir Isaac Newton wrote the following concerning the date of the writing of Revelation. Isaac Newton, one of the greatest scientists of all time, wrote voluminously on the subject of Bible prophecy, especially of the books of Daniel and Revelation: Quote:???Irenaeus introduced an opinion that the Apocalypse was written in the time of Domitian; but then he also postponed the writing- Sir Isaac Newton Another very interesting date marker for the epistle is this: The city of Laodicea and its environs was completely destroyed by an earthquake in AD 66. It was not rebuilt until the early second century, so in AD 95, there would have been no such prosperous community and church there as John described in Revelation 3. AD 95 is about 30 years too late for the book to have been written! Nero reigned from AD 54 to AD 67. It was certainly written before the temple of Jerusalem was destroyed in AD 70. Blessings, Dave Re: Revelation, written on Patmos after Nero? - Thirdwoe - 05-03-2008 I have long believed this to be true even before someone told me why it was. I saw one day while reading the Scriptures, that after being given the Revelation of Yeshua The Messiah on the Island of Patmos, The Apostle John could write these words in his Gospel...."In the beginning was The Word.... Because, If you notice that in the Vision John saw and wrote down what he had seen, Yeshua had something written on His thigh.... And it is well known that the Gospel of John was written after he was released from this exile and was then living in Ephesus being an elderly man. John had been given a Revelation and it shows in his Gospel and letters.... Re: Revelation, written on Patmos after Nero? - *Albion* - 05-03-2008 Dear Thirdwoe, You said: "Because, If you notice that in the Vision John saw and wrote down what he had seen, Yeshua had something written on His thigh...." According to Charles Cutler Torrey in his book 'Our Translated Gospels', "thigh" and "Banner" (as in "His Banner") is only ONE letter different in Aramaic. Cutler was an early Aramaic Primicist (spelling?). That Greek insertion always bothered me. "Thigh" makes absolutely NO sense, whereas "Banner" makes perfect sense! Shlama, Albion Re: Revelation, written on Patmos after Nero? - distazo - 05-03-2008 Friends Tacitus (14:27) simply notes that ???One of the famous cities of Asia, Laodicea, was that same year (66) overthrown by an earthquake, and, without any relief from us, recovered itself by its own resources??? So, the city was not abandoned, but rebuilt. I don't consider the 'earthquake' that fatal that it would not have inhabitants for many years. Re: Revelation, written on Patmos after Nero? - gbausc - 05-03-2008 Shlama Akhi Distazo, I have the following note in my interlinear translation at Rev. 3:14 - Quote:An interesting note in Thayer???s Greek-English Lexicon under the entry for laodikeia -???Laodicea??? documents that Dave Re: Revelation, written on Patmos after Nero? - gbausc - 05-03-2008 Shlama Akhi Albion, The Crawford Aramaic ms. at Rev. 19:16 reads: "(The Name) ams (His thighs) htmje (over) le (His garment) yhwnam (on) le (to him) hl (& is) tyaw 16 (of lordship) atwrmd (& The Lord) armw (of kings) aklmd (The King) aklm (written) abytk "He has on His garment over His thighs The Name written: The King of Kings and The Lord of Lordship." Greek adds the word "and" before "over". The Name is written only on His garment, on each side, over His thigh. One side has,"King of Kings"; the other has, "Lord of Lordship -(Power)" No manuscript in Aramaic or Greek has "banner", that I can find. Blessings, Dave Re: Revelation, written on Patmos after Nero? - Thirdwoe - 05-04-2008 Yes Dave, sorry, that is what I was refering to by memory, I should have looked it up.... In the Vison John learned that Yeshua's name was The Word of God, or at least this was made clear to him...It may be that had something to do with the other Word of God or God the Word statments that follow in John's other and later writtings...Which of course were inspired by the Holy Spirit. The name written on his vesture at the thigh was King of King's, and Lord of Lord's...... and indeed He is. That would make better sence yes.... Re: Revelation, written on Patmos after Nero? - BrotherLarry - 05-05-2008 Shlama to all, The futurist view has two varieties-PARTIAL-futurist view (from chapter 4, verse 1 onwards) and the FULL-futurist view of E. W. Bullinger and others. The reading "on His thigh" is very interesting when you consider the ancient O. T. custom of placing the hand UNDER the thigh when making a solemn oath/covenant with an individual. One of the many examples that E. W. Bullinger gives to show that a shift in dispensations has occurred is the fact that Paul's letters ALWAYS reads OUR Father and NEVER reads HIS Father while Revelation ALWAYS reads HIS Father and NEVER reads OUR Father. Another dispensational consideration is the repeated use of "SERVANTS" in Revelation while Paul insists in Galatians that "you are NO LONGER SERVANTS, BUT SONS." Also consider the fact that the entire book of Revelation is throughly saturated with "Jewish-ness". For instance, why would a Western Gentile pastor be the least bit concerned about "those who say they are Jews but are not, but are of the SYNAGOGUE of Satan." However, I can definitely picture a synagogue "roshe" (head) turning beet-red and grinding his teeth in anguish upon finding this out. <!-- s:crazy: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/crazy.gif" alt=":crazy:" title="Crazy" /><!-- s:crazy: --> Anyway.....don't wanna get too deep into theological stuff here...there are other forums for that. The thing I found out is that you just can't skim through E. W.'s books lightly to fully appreciate his views. You have to immerse yourself in them and check them out for yourself. <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/wink1.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s --> But you can say that about a whole lot of studies of all kinds as well. Shlama w'Burkate, Bro. Larry Re: Revelation, written on Patmos after Nero? - Christina - 05-06-2008 Dispensationalism *cringe*. This aside E. W. Bullinger's scholarship is generally top notch. STUR or SoTOR - SP Silver - 05-07-2008 Shlama: Revelation 13:18. The numerical value of STUR (Roman) and SoTOR (Greek) have the numerical value of 666 (S)amekh=060 (T)av.....=400 (V)av.....=006 ®esh...=200 ____________ Total.....=666 The Greek Seleucids used the title SoTOR. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.bartleby.com/67/214.html">http://www.bartleby.com/67/214.html</a><!-- m --> Rome was once known as Saturnalia, "the city of Saturn". In the Chaldean mysteries the Babylonian dictator Nimrod was deified as Saturn. His birthday was celebrated on December 25th or Saturnalia. In Chaldee, Saturn is spelt STUR which totals 666. This appears to me to be the simplest explaination of the origin of 666 in Revelation 13:18 Shlama, SP Silver Re: Revelation, written on Patmos after Nero? - distazo - 05-07-2008 And Babylon is beying rebuilt. It might soon act. One language, one government. The USA might fall. Amaricas become one union, europe already is, the asian union, the african union, and the soon to come 'world order' might rule them all. This is babel, this is nimrud, because it's not human work, it's the one who owns the world currently. Matthew 4. IF you want to know more about this conspiracy, look on youtube for freemasonry, and illuminati. Re: Revelation, written on Patmos after Nero? - gbausc - 05-07-2008 Shlama Akhi Stephen, Rome was founded at the village, Alba Longa, 753 BC. Where do you get "Saturnalia" as its former name? Also ,Rev. 13 says that 666 is the number of a man. Saturn was no man, simply a mythical god. Rev. 13:16 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Rome was named after Romulus. I don't think his name adds to 666. Blessings, Dave Re: Revelation, written on Patmos after Nero? - *Albion* - 05-08-2008 Dear Rafa, It's "NeroKaesar" translated backwards INTO HEBREW. I do not know if the same would be true, if one used Syriac (Aramaic). if you need a reference book, let me know. I believe that it was David Chilton, the Anglican Priest. He doesn't believe in the Virgin Birth, and essential Beliefs to be a Christian/Messianic Believer. He has researched Yeshua's life quite well (see his book 'Rabbi Jesus'), but he would be more like the early Elkkasites', instead of a real Believer, at least according to his book. Shlama, Albion Rafa Wrote:Guys, I heard somewhere that 666 adds up to HASATAN, check to see if it's true. I also know it adds up to NEROCAESAR, so it perhaps would be wise to search for somebody like that individual when contemplating who the Beast is. I read prince Charles is a direct descendant of Nero by the way (I don't really believe in that "Holy Roman Empire" thing though). So Revelation was not written in Patmos...that I didn't know. |