"Losing Jesus' Language" - Printable Version +- Peshitta Forum (http://peshitta.org/for) +-- Forum: New Testament (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=3) +--- Forum: General (http://peshitta.org/for/forumdisplay.php?fid=7) +--- Thread: "Losing Jesus' Language" (/showthread.php?tid=1198) |
- bar_khela - 02-18-2005 Quote:Abraham cannot be a "Muslim" because Abraham was a Hebrew/Aramean. Abraham would never say "Allah hu akhbar" which means No one ever claimed that Abraham uttered the words "Allahu Akbar." After all, his prinicipal languages were Akkadian and Aramaic. Etymologically speaking, the word "Muslim" is derived from the root SLM, which means "peace" in Aramaic, Hebrew, and classical Arabic. Moreover, Abraham was a Muslim in the sense that he submitted his will unto God. Quote:"Allah is a mouse" in Hebrew and Aramaic. "Akhbar" in Hebrew means "Mouse" and in Aramaic it is "Aqubra", same root word with Hebrew. "Ya' also means God in both Aramaic and Hebrew. This word, however, is not present in Arabic. But your blasphemy in common in modern day Israel as a taunt directed towards Muslims. Quote:Quran also says that Allah is a ZIONIST who gives the land to Israel until the next life to come. Where? Quote:It doesn't say "Arabs" or "Palestinians" here > QURAN 17:104 And We said to the Israelites after him: Dwell in the land: and when the promise of the next life shall come to pass, we will bring you both together in judgment. 104. And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell securely in the land (of promise)": but when the second of the warnings came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd Why did you change the words from their places? Islam and Allah - shimoun63 - 02-18-2005 bar_khela Wrote:Forum,--------------- Shalom to all on the forum, Appologies if I am intruding on this post but let me introduce myself. I am from an Islamic background and now a believer in Yeshua the Nazarene. Akhi bar_khela made some comments regards with Islam e.g. My point is that Muslims, who actually adhere by the Qu'ran and the lifestyle of the Prophet, do not go around killing Jews and Christians. I cannot make my point clearer. ---------- First of all this is not true neither by definition or by the words of the Qur'an or hadith. Just take a look at all the terrorism in the world, who is doing it? Verses of the sword are very clear on what the non-Muslims that includes the Jews and Christians can expect from Muslims who live by the Qur'an. Sura 9.29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah [Allah is not the God of the Bible], nor in the latter day [atheists, polytheists, humanists and animists], nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited [this includes all people who do not comply with food restrictions and general laws of Islam], nor follow the religion of truth [that means ???Islam??? and applies to all non-Muslim people], out of those who have been given the Book [Includes Jews and Christians especially], until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority [submission tax called Jizzya for those who do not believe in Muhammad and Allah] and they are in a state of subjection [humiliate them in subjection i.e. until they feel the only path for them is to become Muslims to avoid this over taxation and humiliation daily]. You also made a comment "show me the early caliphs who were persecuting the Jews or Christians." Read very carefully the above Qur'anic statement, that refutes your argument as it comes out of the Muslim holy text and is effective for all time not just Muhammad's time. Now I would like to see your response. Secondly backed by the Hadith and used by Osama Bin Laden to tell the Muslims... "The Last Hour would not come till the Muslims fight against the Jews, and the Muslims will kill them until the Jews hide themselves behind the stones and trees, and the stones and trees would speak up saying: "O Muslim! O slave of Allah! There is a Jew hiding behind me; come and kill him." The _Ghardaq_ tree would speak, for it is the tree of the Jews." (Muhammad the prophet of Islam, narrated by Abu Hurraira). Where is the peace in the above statements? Thirdly you made some more comments: 1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; 2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; 3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; 4. And there is none like unto Him. Surah 112 Do you agree? Moses would. My response: You would have to prove Allah is God first and Moses would not submit to a monad. Would you please care to provide proof that Allah exists? How may I know this deity that claims to be like Yahweh? Fourthly you said: If being born of a virgin qualifies Eeshoa to be the 'son of God,' then surely Adam has more right than he. My response: Adam was not born from a virgin, Adam cannot be the Son of God since he is a created being and Yeshua is eternal and uncreated. Fifth point, you said: His way is known as "Islam," which was reinforced to the sons of Kedar by the Prophet. My reply: Sons of Keder are in judgment at the end of days for their behaviour towards biological Israel. Jer 49:32 And their camels shall be a booty, and the multitude of their cattle a spoil: and I will scatter into all winds them that are in the utmost corners; and I will bring their calamity from all sides thereof, saith Yahweh. Sixth point, you said: To say that Paradise is restricted to Jews and Christians is egoism. To say that no true Prophet can arise outside of 'the sacred borders' of Israel is egosim. Your nation was only charged to bear light for all nations, which was the original Torah (no longer in your possession), not to claim a divine right to His Kingdom. my reply: This is the way Yahweh set it and Yeshua was the one who died on the cross to bear the sins of many, it may sound egotistical to you or whatever but Yahweh requires a sacrfice for your sins and in Islam you have no salvation since their is only good deeds which are nothing but menstural rags before a holy our holy father Yahweh. 7th point The covenant that was made with Abraham is an eternal covenant not temporal so the Hebrews have full rights to their land. God said to Abraham, "I will give you and your descendents after you the land in which you are now foreigners, all the land of Canaan, as a permanent possession." (Genesis 17:8) ???Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, to you have I given it, as I spoke unto Moses. From the wilderness, and this Lebanon, even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the Great Sea [Mediterraneansea] toward the going down of the sun, shall be your border.??? (Joshua1:3,4; Re: Deuteronomy 11:24) ???This is the inheritance of the tribe of the children of Judah according to their families.??? ???Ashdod, its towns and its villages; Gaza, its towns and its villages; unto the Brook of Egypt, the Great Sea being the border thereof.??? (Joshua15:20,47) 8th Point: For the Lord has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His dwelling. (Psalm 132:13) God of Israel Yahweh is a Zionist Himself, so if you hate Zionists then you hate Him also and live under a curse from which you cannot free yourself unless you come to Yeshua the Nazarene. Please answer these questions so I may be able to help you. Blessings in the one name under heaven Yeshua of Nazareth Simon - Paul Younan - 02-18-2005 Shimoun, Please tell us more about yourself. Are you an Arab, or non-Arab? ALLAH IS A ZIONIST - Uma - 02-18-2005 Yusuf Ali was trying hard to hide the truth that Allah is a Zionist. <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: --> PICKTHAL: And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations. SHAKIR: And We said to the Israelites after him: Dwell in the land: and when the promise of the next life shall come to pass, we will bring you both together in judgment. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/017.qmt.html">http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/017.qmt.html</a><!-- m --> Does Allah tell Arab or Palestinian Muslims to dwell in the land? NO! Quran says Allah told it to Israel to dwell in the land. Can any Arab or Palestinian Muslim call to mind Allah favors over them and make them excel above all nations? > QURAN 2:122 O children of Israel, call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations Can you ask any Arab / Palestinian Muslim the clear sign that Allah given them? No! Allah is angry with Muslims who changed Allah's favorite nation Israel to Arab. Muslims are siding with wrong side in "Palestinian issues" because Allah is a Zionist. <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: --> > QURAN 2:211 Ask the Israelites how many a clear sign have We given them; and whoever changes the favor of Allah (i.e. ISRAEL) after it has come to him, then surely Allah is severe in requiting (evil). Quran says Allah curses the violaters of Sabbath. Can you see any Arab Muslims observe Sabbath? > QURAN 4:47 O you who have been given the Book! believe that which We have revealed, verifying what you have, before We alter faces then turn them on their backs, or curse them as We cursed the violaters of the Sabbath, and the command of Allah shall be executed. Jews observe Sabbath on Saturday while Christians observe it on Sunday. No wonder Allah curses Muslims. <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: --> Quran says the holy land belongs to Israel not to any Palestinian Muslims or Arab Muslims because Allah is a Zionist > QURAN 7:137 And We made the people who were deemed weak to inherit the eastern lands and the western ones which We had blessed; and the good word of your Lord was fulfilled in the children of Israel because they bore up (sufferings) patiently; and We utterly destroyed what Firon and his people had wrought and what they built. <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s --> Quran says Zionist Allah made Israel to pass through the sea in order to inherit the land. Does it say Arab Muslim or Palestinian Muslim here? >QURAN 10:90 And We made the children of Israel to pass through the sea, then Firon and his hosts followed them for oppression and tyranny; until when drowning overtook him, he said: I believe that there is no god but He in Whom the children of Israel believe and I am of those who submit. Please remember that Yasser Arafat was an Egyptian just like Firaon (Pharaoh... most probably was a descendant of Pharaoh himself). No wonder Allah destroyed Muslims in their three wars with Israel - Allah's favorite nation. <!-- s:bigups: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bigups.gif" alt=":bigups:" title="Big Ups" /><!-- s:bigups: --> Quran says that Allah gives the land to Israel and provide them with good things. Does it say Arab Muslims or Palestinian Muslims here? > QURAN 10:93 And certainly We lodged the children of Israel in a goodly abode and We provided them with good things; Quran says Allah bestowed favors to Abraham and his grandson Israel. It doesn't say Arab or Palestinian Muslims here > QURAN 19:58 These are they on whom Allah bestowed favors, from among the prophets of the seed of Adam, and of those whom We carried with Nuh, and of the seed of Ibrahim and Israel, and of those whom We guided and chose; when the communications of the Beneficent God were recited to them, they fell down making obeisance and weeping. The verse above shows to us that the prophets come from Israel. No wonder so many Hebrew prophets in the Quran. <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="" title="Happy" /><!-- s --> <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: --> Quran says Allah guided and chose Israel. It doesn't say Arab or Palestinian Muslims here >QURAN 19:58 These are they on whom Allah bestowed favors, from among the prophets of the seed of Adam, and of those whom We carried with Nuh, and of the seed of Ibrahim and Israel, and of those whom We guided and chose; when the communications of the Beneficent God were recited to them, they fell down making obeisance and weeping. Quran says peace is with those who follow the guidance from Israel. So why must we follow racist Arab Muslims who wanted to torment Israel? >QURAN 20:47 So go you both to him and say: Surely we are two apostles of your Lord; therefore send the children of Israel with us and do not torment them! Indeed we have brought to you a communication from your Lord, and peace is on him who follows the guidance; Muslims have no peace today because they have disobeyed Allah. They let racist Arabs led by Abu Sufyan, Muawiya(waged war against Caliph Ali) , Yazid(beheaded the grandson of Muhammad), and Marwan to lead them astray from Allah by hating Israel which is Allah's favorite nation. Please take note that Caliph Marwan the descendant of arch enemy of Muhammad (Abu Sufyan) burned the Quran of Uthman and replaced with his modified version of Quran because they are jealois of Israel. However, we still can find traces of the original Quran. <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="" title="Happy" /><!-- s --> If only Arab Muslims listened to the Quran, the Middle East today would be peaceful because the holy land belongs to Israel. Quran says Allah delivered Israel from its enemies. No wonder the Arab Muslims lost three wars to Israel >QURAN 20:80 O children of Israel! indeed We delivered you from your enemy, and We made a covenant with you on the blessed side of the mountain, and We sent to you the manna and the quails. >QURAN 44:30 And certainly We delivered the children of Israel from the abasing chastisement, <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: --> Quran says Allah gives a heritage to Israel It doesn't say anything about Arabs or Palestinian Muslims here. Muslims are siding with wrong people because Allah favors Israel not racist Arab Muslims! > QURAN [26.59] Even so. And We gave them as a heritage to the children of Israel. Heritage means 1. Property that is or can be inherited; an inheritance. 2.Something that is passed down from preceding generations; a tradition. 3. The status acquired by a person through birth; a birthright: a heritage of affluence and social position. Muslims doubt Allah and Quran. Quran says Allah gives a book to Israel to guide them. >QURAN 32:23 And certainly We gave the Book to Musa, so be not in doubt concerning the receiving of it, and We made it a guide for the children of Israel. I challenge Arab Muslim or Arab wannabe Muslim to show me what Quran says about Arabs and Palestinian Muslims in the Quran... <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: --> By siding with Arab Muslims in the Middle East conflict instead of siding with Zionist Allah in the Quran, Muslims are carrying this emoticon <!-- stupid: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/withstupid.gif" alt="tupid:" title="Stupid" /><!-- stupid: --> This is what Quran says about Arab Muslims .... > QURAN 9:97 The Arabs are the worst unbelievers and hypocrites, and are most disposed not to know the limits of what God has revealed to His Prophet. And God is all-knowing, Wise. This is what Quran says about Arab Muslims > QURAN 9:101 Among those around you of the Arabs are hypocrites-as also among the inhabitants of Medina; they are insolent in their hypocrisy. You don't know them-We do. We will torment them twice, then turn them over to a great punishment. Quran Sura 9:101 Any other verse concerning Arabs in the Quran? <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: --> There is no doubt that according to the Quran, the worst unbelievers and hypocrites are the Arab Muslims. Just look at how the Arab world response to Tsunami victims. They were reluctant to help unlike the kafir world led by America... shimoun63 has a valid point concerning greedy power hungry Caliphs. In fact, the Caliphs hated one another. If the best among Muslims were killing each other instead of loving one another like the Apostles of Christ, we should not be amazed that they persecuted non-Muslims. Just look at the BATTLE OF CAMEL. The mother of all believers Bibi Aishah waged war against Caliph Ali the commander of all believers because she wanted her relative to be Caliph. More than 20,000 Muslims died killing each other in this battle. <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s --> <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="" title="Happy" /><!-- s --> <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: --> - oozeaddai - 02-18-2005 [quote="bar_khela"][quote] No one ever claimed that Abraham uttered the words "Allahu Akbar." After all, his prinicipal languages were Akkadian and Aramaic. Etymologically speaking, the word "Muslim" is derived from the root SLM, which means "peace" in Aramaic, Hebrew, and classical Arabic. Moreover, Abraham was a Muslim in the sense that he submitted his will unto God. quote] Muslim is derived from Salaam/ Shalom? I heard it literally came from some Arabic word for submission. - Paul Younan - 02-18-2005 In Aramaic, we say "hua ma'shlem" when we want to convey the thought that somone is going to "submit" to something, against their will. - bar_khela - 02-18-2005 Paul Younan Wrote:In Aramaic, we say "hua ma'shlem" when we want to convey the thought that somone is going to "submit" to something, against their will. I proclaim total war on Shimoun and Uma on this forum, Paul. Therefore, I suggest you run to the store for some popcorn and Raisinets. This debate will resume next week. However, I request each combatant stays open minded and sober so that the conversation is fruitful. Any combatant who breaks a set of rules (that I ask you to set over the weekend) should be disqualified. Furthermore, I ask that I battle one person at a time. I welcome you to shoot as me as well, Paul. Get all of those deep dark feelings regarding Islam out onto the table. This debate is inevitable - oozeaddai - 02-19-2005 hhhmmm well just as long the battle is with words and not anything "steel jacketed". At some point, I actually probably would like to ask Bar Khela, about things like the rules of Sharia, and such. Since I'm a Coptic convert, and the murder of the New Jersey Coptic family last month, I find quite disturbing. But things on this thread really have become pretty vitolic, without even raising a more immediate sensitive issue like this. - Dan Gan - 02-19-2005 bar_khela Wrote:Quote:Read the full account here http://aina.org/martyr.htm Thanks for explaining the reason why Caliph Omar invaded the lands of the Assyrians. <!-- satisfied: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/satisfied.gif" alt="atisfied:" title="Satisfied" /><!-- satisfied: --> bar_khela Wrote:Therefore, I resign as a member of the forum. Farewell. Good bye! You have made a wise decision. This forum is about Peshitta. It is not about propagating Islamic agenda. Like what I told you before, if you wanted to propagate the beliefs that Islam is a tolerant religion you should do it in Islamic forums because Muslims live by their understanding of their "holy" books (i.e. Al Quran and Al Hadith) not by non-Islamic resources or cut and paste from web sites. You will do Christians and Jews a very big favour if you managed to persuade fellow Muslims to remove the offensive texts from the Hadith. In this regard, I totally support you. bar_khela Wrote:I proclaim total war on Shimoun and Uma on this forum, Paul... Is that some form of jihad? I hope no one get killed. bar_khela Wrote:This debate is inevitable This debate is evitable if you do not hijack this thread to promote your Islamic agenda. This debate is not appropriate here. I suggest you guys hold your debate at the following web sites (and at the same time you could also reach out to wider audience sharing same interest with you guys): <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/">http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/</a><!-- m --> <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/">http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/</a><!-- m --> Cut and paste from web sites should not be called debate. Hiding behind "cut and paste" from web sites to say that Zionists like Andrew Gabriel Roth are evil is not noble. When confronted by AGR, you said you have been misunderstood when the fact is telling us that you agree with your "cut and paste." Because if you disagree with that kind of statement then why "cut and paste" in the first place. Don't bother to reply as I hope you will fulfill your noble and sober decision to leave. Don't let others change your mind. oozeaddai Wrote:hhhmmm well just as long the battle is with words and not anything "steel jacketed". I hope this "battle" will not take place in this forum. If there is a need it is more appropriate to hold the battle here: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/">http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/</a><!-- m --> bar_khela Wrote:I welcome you to shoot as me as well, Paul. "steel jacketed" is knife right? I hope Paul will not use a gun to shoot in this "total war" or "battle" or ""combat" <!-- s:nervous: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/nervous.gif" alt=":nervous:" title="Nervous" /><!-- s:nervous: --> oozeaddai Wrote:At some point, I actually probably would like to ask Bar Khela, about things like the rules of Sharia, and such. Since I'm a Coptic convert, and the murder of the New Jersey Coptic family last month, I find quite disturbing. As far as I know. Islamic Sharia requires death for apostate like shimoun63 (if I understood his post correctly that he is an apostate of Islam). Should shimoun63 and bar_khela feel the need to debate, the following forum would be more appropriate: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/">http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/</a><!-- m --> I strongly advice that shimoun63 should refrain from meeting bar_khela in person. You will never know what would happen. oozeaddai Wrote:But things on this thread really have become pretty vitolic, without even raising a more immediate sensitive issue like this.This thread is originally about the language of Jesus. It has been hijacked. I never join any Islamic forum because I am not interested in Islam but I am sure any posting criticizing Islam will be deleted in Islamic web sites. After 9/11 Christian/Jews and Muslims relationships are getting worse. There is no need to make it worse by turning this forum into Islamic debate. Arguing in this forum could destroy your friendship with Paul Younan and AGR (i.e. if you guys have met in real life and are friends). You guys might deny the possibility of this happening but you will never know what will happen. Therefore, it is better not to make the matter worse. bar_khela Wrote:Therefore, I resign as a member of the forum. Farewell. If you feel the need to resign because you realized that you have joined the wrong forum as your interest is in Islamic debates then you should join appropriate forums where many members share your interests. Don't bother to reply to my post. Honor your own words. I hope you will pass your exam. Farewell. - shimoun63 - 02-19-2005 Paul Younan Wrote:Shimoun, Shalom Paul, I am from Pakistan, who better to debate a Muslim then an ex-Muslim who knows the history, etymology of the Qur'an and Islam. <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s --> Bar_Khela, I suggest you create another topic and your debate with me is set, answer my previous e-mail so we may continue to exchange our ideas to reach the truth because your god is not the true God Yahweh and I suggest you use your intelligence rather then cutting and pasting websites because your worship to a false god is wrong and idolatrous and you have no eternity so think carefully, this is not about who wins the debate, this is about who has eternity with Hashem of Israel and who doesn't. Blessings in Yeshua the Nazarene Simon - Andrew Gabriel Roth - 02-19-2005 bar_khela Wrote:Shlama Akhi Andrew, AGR: Which means you have been cold up until now. And you will remain cold as long as you preach lies and hatred. I have read with interest the words of Shimoun and Uma. One seems to suggest that the problem is in the Qu'uran itself, that by its very nature it is evil and dripping with blood, and that the terrorists are actually properly interpereting it. The other says (I think anyway) that the original Qu'uran has been misunderstood. That if Allah is YHWH that Allah always loved and will always love and support Israel. I don't know which of these is right, but I believe ONE OF THEM MUST BE. And so it comes back to my original statement. You either have shamed the true Qu'uran or you have proven it to be full of lies. I personally don't care which it is. I only know that one of them is. Understand this: I have no quarrel with anything or anybody about any belief as long as my people are not attacked. But I will fight my enemies of any faith (whether they are true to that faith or are perverting it) any place in YHWH's green earth. A final word to the Christians here. What I have said about the Pharisees and the oral law, the immuatability of Torah, etc., is only intended as a response to disprove Bar Khela's lie that all of Jews are kicked out of Israel according to the Gospels. As a Nazarene, I have done nothing in secret, but as a member of this forum, I have done my best not to emphasize these things just as a way to incite argument. No question I believe my positions here, but I don't want any of you to think I was attacking you. In fact, were it not absolutely necessary, I would not have gotten into this at all, and barring such bigoted incitement as this in the future, I have no intent of doing so again. Anyone who has questions on this can see my website or read my writings. But I will not make peshitta.org a clearling house for "Andrew Gabriel Roth Inc." And to my dear friend Paul Younan, my apologies. I would never have gotten down this theological road as far as I had to here if I were not compelled. I could only refute prejudice with Scripture and that means theology was very much on point here. Also my apologies to anyone else who may have been offended by this, as it was not my intention. Bar Khela, if you cannot even acknowledge the offense you gave or have the slightest compassion for someone who says you offended even if you do not fully understand how you did so, then honestly you have nothing to contribute. Let me say this one more time: "All Zionists are evil" is not a tenable or tolerant doctrine. I am a Zionist, so yes, I am offended. I don't care if you say it directly or support a quote from someone else, or leave it there and remain silent. The offense is the same. You know many black people would say that they have a right to criticise their own, but others better not do so. I can relate to that. So if a Rabbi is misguided about anything, Y'shua, Zionism, whatever--I will decide where and how or if to deal with that. But heaven help you for doing the same thing, because the bottom line is that no Rabbi would physcially attack the state of Israel or kill Jews by the thousands, even if they thought Israel was not for real. That is the key difference. And yes, it is true that I am attacking you from the outside, but I am not forsaking my principles when I am defending my people, and that takes precedence. Even now though I have hope that you will turn back and that we may continue in peace as we always have done. And you better believe that if someone in my life said I hurt them badly, even if I did not "get it", I would still try to make that right and apologize for the impression. That comes from being married for 10 years more than anything else. You wnat debate? Act more mature. - Dan Gan - 02-20-2005 Andrew Gabriel Roth Wrote:You wnat debate? Act more mature. Shlama Andrew, With all respect to your opinion and how you felt, I feel there is no need to demand an apology from someone who does not feel any remorse of what he had done. You apologize to someone because you realized that you have done wrong. Not because someone (in power such as a moderator) demanded it. Not because you wanted to create a new thread to bash the Bible and wage jihad (total war) against Bible believers. Not because you wanted to continue to promote your Islamic agenda after saying farewell. Cutting and pasting from anti-Bible web sites and calling it a debate in a place where Bible believers gathered is like posting pornography. You cannot act or pretend to be mature if you are not. It is just my 0.1 cent opinion. Peace. - oozeaddai - 02-21-2005 QUOTE This thread is originally about the language of Jesus. It has been hijacked. I never join any Islamic forum because I am not interested in Islam but I am sure any posting criticizing Islam will be deleted in Islamic web sites. QUOTE That is true. But sometimes conversations peter out, and even in real life conversations naturally change from thing to another. I of course raised the original one, concerning the language of Jesus dieing out etc. Which would be good to discuss again if anyone has any more thoughts about it. I did want to get an answer on that one question regarding Christian Assyrians fighting alongside the Moslems. I asked about it, and was given a link to one of the Big Assyrian genocide sites. That I actually have looked at a number of times before, concerning that issue in particular. What I'm wondering is there a short answer to my question. Concerning the when and where as far this happening. I have read some about this in the Church Aflame, especially concerning asssyrians in the military in India. But a statement of Paul's about Assyrians fighting Crusaders got me curious as far as wanting to learn more. |